I am on my way making a WW 2 diorama, at a river promenade, where Germans are reinforcing a strategically critical stone bridge in a French town, which they captured a couple of months ago. They are reinforcing the location as they got information that the American forces will be there in no time. Heavy activity in a lot of rubble is the summary.

It would be great to have critics about the plan layout, and anything that bites. Let me tell you about the story in detail:

With the German invasion of France, France began losing ground in all locations. This is a town built at two sides of a river. The location displayed by the diorama is a bridge and a promenade. The lower part has had a bomb exploding and creating a crater, while Germans were capturing the town. The crater has been used by the capturing Germans as a location to build a concrete bunker housing a anti aircraft gun, with barricades against tanks and infantry. Long after this, Germans get the information that the town will be attacked by the Americans, so the rest of the equipment and the vehicles are for reinforcement. The drawings below show the general outlook of the diorama. I would love to answer any question about any part.

The plan is at:
http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/bc/caanbash/vwp?.dir=/My+Photos&.dnm=plan+proposal+for+diorama.jpg&.src=ph&.view=t&.hires=t

and the sections are at:
http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/bc/caanbash/vwp?.dir=/My+Photos&.dnm=sections+of+the+diorama.jpg&.src=ph&.view=t&.hires=t

Unfortunately the Panzer IV will be made from the kit of Academy, which I made a review in the Reviews section. Go read it

Thanks for your contribution!

Sorry,

Can't see the files

Ditto Ronny - Can't see the images.

Hello,

sorry, I can't access your file. Maybe there's a problem of rights...

Now, about the story : the german captured France in 1940 and the liberation only started in 1944... so I think that most of the damage done in 1940 would have been long repaired. Also, real fortifications (mg nests, AA guns positions) would have been built.
On an other hand, the rubble could have been done by allied air attack.
As you say, the combat hasn't come to that place yet, so why not show it intact ?
have you got an idea of what part of france you want to depict ?
eastern france, that saw combat in 1940 and 1944-45 ?
or western france that only saw combat in 1944 ?

If you want to show damage done by allied air attacks, AA guns proteting the gun, there's another possibility : having the german troops retreating thanks to a damaged bridge, under the defence of the AA guns. The bridge and the surroundings would have been damaged by allied air activity and now some guns have been hastily deployed to defend it. You could even have engineers placing demolition charges to destroy the bridge as soon as the americna troops are in view... This situation would fit Normandy (nort-western france) very well, I think.

Well these are juste very personal ideas.
And anyway, have un with your dio ! And please give us more details about your idea, it's interesting !

Sorry about the photos, friends. They must be shared at the moment.
For the exact location of the events, I have not thought about anything. Can be anywhere in France. Allied attacks have not yet started at the section of time here. A German plane drops a bomb on something belonging to the French (a group of soldiers, a tank, an anti aircraft gun or enything else), remains of which are not remaining at the location. The rubble must have produced by the german air attacks. Time has passed over that incident. The Germans had the time to build a bunker for their anti aircraft gun utilizing the crater they formed with the bomb, meanwhile, repairing the damaged promenade with the wooden piles (this might be an answer to the question in your mind, Penpen). So, the location can be eastern France, as you suggest, what do you say about this? I will consider Germans placing charges on the bridge. This is a nice idea, which I really wanted to use as soon as I read your suggestion.

I have to confess that I am really keen on building a reinforced concrete anti aircraft gun bunker in a crater, which is located in a town. I want my diorama to be chaotic, which is a personal choice, which people might not like. So, now that you can see my pictures hopefully, I wish I can have these creative criticisms go on. Thanks again for your kind contribution.

the correct link is :

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/bc/caanbash/vwp?.dir=/My+Photos&.dnm=plan+proposal+for+diorama.jpg&.src=ph&.view=t&.hires=

If eastern france sounds good to you, it's good ! You'll have to check the time when combats took place : fall, early winter ?
Your plan is absolutely great ! I'm impressed at how clean it is ! the problem is that it's a bit small to have a good view of it.

Sorry again about the photos, I am new to this. I placed them elsewhere:

plan:

http://groups.msn.com/armorama/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=12174

sections:

http://groups.msn.com/armorama/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=12175

Hope this time you can see them. I produced the drawings in a CAD software, so they are to scale. I will print them on large paper to create templates for the site and the buildings, as I proceed further with the details.

I would like to ask something: Is "Eastern Front", which we see everywhere shown under snow display the combat taken place at the east part of France or the war in Russia? I think I am a bit confused about the locations and time. I would appreciate some help about it.

Thanks again.

Overall very well thought out. The plans is great.
I agree with Penpen a bunker in a crater kinda doesn't 'fit'. If they took the time to build a bunker they would have also taken the time to fill in the crater to give the bunker a good foundation.
If you want chaos make it more of a retreat mode diorama, you can work in some Allied shelling in and get craters that way.

Yes I know that the bunker is the most distracting part of the scene. May be I should use that in another diorama of a smaller dimensions. An anti aircraft gun at such a position near a river, where attacking aircraft can be seen easily because of the open area character of the location, would be appropriate, though. What do you think about it? The Flakvierling 38 located at the bottom right corner of the bridge, protected by sandbags instead of the bunker? May be I can add one appropriate vehicle to carry away its trailer and save my Kubelwagen and the engine maintenance set to the other small diorama with the bunker.

hello caanbash !

Fighting took place in eastern France in 1940 when germany invaded. It then took place again in 1944, when allied forces liberated the country. I think it was in late 1944 : fall and winter. Maybe a bit in early 1945, still in wintertime. Then, the german army had been pushed back into germany and that's where the fighting continued till may 1945.
France, belgium, western germany, all this is the western font.
When we talk about the eastern front, it's the combat between germany and the USSR (starting in june 41 and ending in may 45).

What we are saying is that the bunker in the crater is a bit surprising... if you place the AA guns with sandbags around nxt to a new crater, it sounds more logical...
But anyway, do as you wish ! The ideas that I express are very personal and I am no expert at all ! The most important thing about your dio is to have fun building it ! If you like our counsels, you can use them... otherwise, I'll be very happy if you don't !

You are right about the bunker. It was the starting point of my diorama, but from the very beginning, I criticized my own idea. Combined with your kind objections, I omit the bunker. I will use the bunker idea in a more appropriate setting with the Kübelwagen.

It is going to be 1944 summer or fall, western France. I will move the crater downwards a little, make the bridge a whole one with a little part of the other edge of the river without a promenade, add a horch or a steyr to carry the trailer of the Flak, add some more soldiers, sandbags and barricades to the scene. This will make it a larger plan. I will complete the plan as soon as possible to get some more critics.

Thanks.

Ola Caanbash

I would not let out the Bunker if I were you. I only would change the way you want to show it in your dio. If it`s a large bridge It`s not strange that the Germans put up a really heavy defense for it. These kind of bridges were really important for the advance of the Allies and the germans knew that too. So mostly the bridges were completely guarded by several types of AA guns, small pillboxes and MG nests. My guess would be that if this was a bridge of great strategic value the germans would built the bunker on a really good foundation and not in a crater as the soil was too loose there to carry the weight of the bunker.
I think the best time to put your dio in would be is Western France around the beginning of 1944 when the Germans were expecting an Invasion already except they didn`t knew where.
I like your diagrams they are very clear and look very good. If you manage to get the dio to the same level of craftmanship as your drawing it would be a pricewinner at a lot of contests.

My 2 Cents

The plans look great, what CAD program did you use to draw them?

Hi,

Perhaps this article - Flak – from a modeller's viewpoint (part I of II) can give you some ideas about the flak and the bunker.


HTH

I used Architerctural Desktop 3.3 in the computer lab of the department of architecture of my university.

I made a little research about the bunker. I asked a friend who is a civil engineer with master's degree, and he said that explosives are used to make ground stiff when a loose ground is encountered during construction. He is quite sure that the ground of a crater is stiffer than the other parts. Looking at the second section which is through the reinforced concrete structure, the level differences created by the crater look convincing for such a building to be built.

As I said, I am quite aware about the weirdness of building the bunker there from the very beginning, but I think I will stick to my idea and see what happens after I build it. Sometimes we see idiotic ideas come to life and prove that they are not idiotic at all How about a crazy German commander ordering that bunker to be built? Is he really an idiot, or did he in fact see a thing that is coming?

Here is the final phrase that might rationalize the bunker idea: An anti-aircraft bunker placed in a crater, the soil of which has already been stiffened by the explosion, near a stratecigal bridge, at an open area with a river and two large roads at both sides of it, suitable for an anti aircraft gun to be placed.

And thanks, Tuga, for the link. I will study on that.

I am adding the German Steyr, with that crazy commander #:-) to the diorama. Updated plans are hopefully be available tomorrow or the next day.

Thanks for all critics. Further critics still would help, not only about the bunker, but other things, too.

Thanks again.

Do you intend to show both sides of the river, or only one side, the bridge ceing "cut" ?

My intention was to make one side of it, as it is seen on the sections and the plan. I have changed my mind now, I have rotated the whole setting about 30 degrees in plan in ccw direction, so this gave me space to make a complete bridge and a very minor part of the opposite side at the bottom left part. I will show the new plan tomorrow.

As you intend to show the full length of the bridge, you are probably going to have a big surface of the dio covered by the river. Maybe ou should try to find a few interest points to add there, because otherwise it might seem a bit "empty". These could simply be rocks in the stream, or things thrown from the river bank... other ideas ?

Some remains of the crater will be in the river. There are logs nailed in the river by the Germans to prevent further flow of soil in the river. You can see it on the plan and the second section. With the idea of German soldiers planting explosices on the bridge, I developed an idea, which should be criticised. Germans on a river boat, placing the charges under the thinnest point of the arches of the bridge... The idea is to make the charges hidden under the bridge. The thinnest part of the arch is the center part, which is the most vulnerable point of it to an explosion at the under side (a static fact I know, I am a restoration architect ) The boat will be tied to the promenade, may be at two points, with soldiers assisting the boat from the promenade.

Well, yes, here you can see the new updated plan:

http://groups.msn.com/armorama/caginsalbum.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=12232

I wish to display the pictures on Armorama, but I can not manage to do so, although I do everything it says in image help. Probably because MSN does not provide a link ending with ".../imagefile.jpg". Can anybody suggest something?

Caanbash

Right click on the picture you want to show in the post
Choose properties
You get a new small window
in the Middle of that window is a URL
hightlight the URL
copy this url by CTRL-C
And paste it with CTRL-V between the [img ] paste pic url here [/ img]

your pic has to be visible in the post now



By the way this is the URL you get when you copy it from MSN Armorama it`s quite long so be sure that you copy the whole URL
http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RQDPAhMVhOzwO33B4USO8m9C*RvN2v2p2AfDJSSrUd53YFPJKHqVFlzetuZ0G995db3flrmpMOI7XrDaXl76ud1j1HDghYaaYE6mSdV80CI/plan_fin.jpg?dc=4675431708959303522

Good idea about the boat !
But if you place the two ropes go to the same side of the river, it will be pushed back to that side. You'd better have one rope going all the way through and the boat attached to it and guiding itself along the bridge, along the lngth of the rope.

You know what I learnt from my architectural project experiences? When you look at your own project, you can not sometimes see even a tiny mistake, because you get used to seeing it, as if it was a correct thing. This is part I like most about taking critics from distant eyes. That dynamic error about the rope is quite a simple issue I missed. Thanks a lot for making me recognize that. I will place the soldier closer to the bridge to the other side. Oh, one more thing about the boat: The soldiers in the boat will have a stick which will make them able to manipulate the direction of the boat, too. We dont want any ropes to slip from the hands of the soldiers to make the other two dissappear in the river right? #:-)

While I love a complex diorama, I find that the best ones are those that convey a single sense of purose... this concept seems interesting in that there are many things you could add to the enviroment, but just be sure to tell the "single story" as opposed to a collage of seperate events. This doesn't mean you can't have a large diorama (several of mine are several feet wide/long)... but it doesn mean you have the extra burden of tying more together to carry out the central story. I look forward to seeing your progress.