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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
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US Vehicle Markings Help Needed
gremlinz
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Hamilton, New Zealand
Joined: February 07, 2009
KitMaker: 795 posts
Armorama: 743 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 - 04:22 PM UTC
I'm doing a restoration of an M21 Mortar carrier and have hit an impasse, I have no decals for it and can't find any that fit the vehicle I want to do so I'm going to have to print my own.

I want to do a vehicle of the 54th Armored Infantry Battalion, 10th Armored Division in Normandy late 1944. I figure the star on the hood, radiator, sides and rear are pretty straight forward.

What I need help with is what would the context of the bumper numbers be to represent the second or third vehicle of this unit ?

Alternately according to stugIII in combat these markings were removed. Does anyone know if this was the case and if so did it include the reg number on the sides of the engine ?

Cause if those were removed it's just a simple case of doing generic stars.
NormSon
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North Carolina, United States
Joined: December 17, 2006
KitMaker: 181 posts
Armorama: 141 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 - 04:33 PM UTC
I would strongly suggest you look into Archer dry transfers. Lots of stuff, including all manner of stars, serial numbers, bumper codes, and even names, in the proper sizes and type. Great quick service. www.archertransfers.com. A lot easier than printing your own. And I'm not just saying this because I'm involved with Archer.
jowady
Joined: June 12, 2006
KitMaker: 1,027 posts
Armorama: 683 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 - 06:48 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm doing a restoration of an M21 Mortar carrier and have hit an impasse, I have no decals for it and can't find any that fit the vehicle I want to do so I'm going to have to print my own.

I want to do a vehicle of the 54th Armored Infantry Battalion, 10th Armored Division in Normandy late 1944. I figure the star on the hood, radiator, sides and rear are pretty straight forward.

What I need help with is what would the context of the bumper numbers be to represent the second or third vehicle of this unit ?

Alternately according to stugIII in combat these markings were removed. Does anyone know if this was the case and if so did it include the reg number on the sides of the engine ?

Cause if those were removed it's just a simple case of doing generic stars.


Their first combat was in the Saar campaign and at Metz, not in Normandy. Even if markings were painted out, units generally kept their bumper codes intact. As for the bumper codes, you will need to know what company your vehicle is from, then simply place the company letter and vehicle number on the right side of the bumper, battalion and division go on the left.
gremlinz
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Hamilton, New Zealand
Joined: February 07, 2009
KitMaker: 795 posts
Armorama: 743 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 - 08:58 PM UTC
Well this is all I have to go on for markings for actual vehicles :


Quoted Text

The 54th Armored Infantry Battalion, 10th Armored Division received at least three M21 Mortar Carriers in France during 1944. These vehicles participated in the relief of Bastogne, and remained in service with the 54th until July 1945


Also that the listed units in the 10th armoured CCB at Bastogne were "B Company 54th Armoured Infantry Battalion.

So I'm assuming I'm looking at a vehicle from B Co. 54th.

I have absolutely zero knowledge of allied armour in WWII which is why I'm looking for guidance as to what exactly the markings would have read. Most of the images I could find online of 10th armoured vehicles in WWII bear no vehicle markings other than the stars.

Would I be right in assuming 10A54A on the left ( with the "A" being the armour triangle symbol ) and B3 ( third vehicle B company ) on the right ?
jowady
Joined: June 12, 2006
KitMaker: 1,027 posts
Armorama: 683 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 - 04:34 AM UTC


I don't know the specifics for an armored infantry batn, but I think you are looking at

10(triangle)54AIB B-3

54(triangle) would indicate 54th Armored Battalion.

Many photos of vehicles lack bumper codes because they were removed by censors.
GeraldOwens
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Florida, United States
Joined: March 30, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 - 10:16 AM UTC
Bumper codes could be removed, if ordered, to maintain security for a specific operation. The white paint was specifically designed to be soluble in gasoline so they could be eliminated easily. That said, it's not clear how often this was actually done. In many cases, bumper codes in period photos have been censored (though usually by crudely scratching the negative, leaving a white spot, or marking a print with black ink). In many other cases, the codes are simply too filthy to be seen, or the area is obscured by stowage.
gremlinz
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Hamilton, New Zealand
Joined: February 07, 2009
KitMaker: 795 posts
Armorama: 743 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 - 10:35 AM UTC
Thanks for all the input guys.

I Managed to get ahold of a book on the 10th Armoured with a lot of photos of Shermans, Stuarts and M3s in it and none have any vehicle codes other than one that you can see has been almost fully obscured by mud that looks to have been smeared over them.

So I've decided I'll just go with painted on stars using a stencil and leave the vehicle numbers off. I don't want to get massively into accuracy because it's the old Tamiya M21 so there are a lot of other ares that should be tweaked too if I go down that road. The build is mainly an exercise in restoring a prebuilt kit so don't want to get sidetracked too much from the main focus of what I'm doing.

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