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Dioramas
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"Stug!"
Airchalenged
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Posted: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 - 09:13 AM UTC
So I picked up the following kit last week thinking it would be the kit that lasted me through most of this semester.



Well low and behold that didn't happen... it was done before my semester even started on Monday. Anyway I had this idea floating around in my head for a dio of some sort that I wanted to do with it. Initially I wanted to do a scene similar to the one in episode 4 of Band of Brothers when they are about to enter that one town when they are mounted on Shermans. I was going to do the moment right when Hashey (I believe that's who it was) yells out "Stug!" and everyone goes scrambling for the safety of the ditch. I'd replace the Paratroopers with regular infantry.

Well that didn't pan out because the M4A4 was a lend lease Sherman (although they were british tankers...). I decided to replace the American Infantry with some British infantry in relatively the same poses. With some help from Alan McNeilly I picked out the following two kits to work with:





I'll use the kneeling guy from the Dragon kit and the kneeling and semi kneeling guy from the MB kit for the three guys on the back of the Sherman. The three standing guys in the Dragon kit and the torso of the prone guy in the MB kit to scratch the two guys mounted on the front "bumpers" of the Sherman. I'll probably have to throw in some extra money for a set of Hornet heads and hands.

Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome.

Matt
Airchalenged
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Posted: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 - 09:16 AM UTC
Oh and I'll have to fork out some money for some British tankers and decals since the kit came with NW Europe US Tankers and PTO (Burma to be specific) US decals.

That is all,
Carry on.
Bowman18
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Posted: Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 12:38 AM UTC
Sounds good, however if were me that were doing this dio, i would make the road and the tank as the main feature with the infantry and the like running through the ditch in the background, so as to put it into a rectangular base or on a square base with the ditch and road being at an angle. This way you could do a very detailed base without any real major buildings.

Just my opinion, hope it helps.
Airchalenged
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Posted: Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 03:43 AM UTC
Well I am not sure if I will actually be doing a base right away at this point. Like I said this is supposed to last me the semester. But your Idea does sound pretty interesting. I'll think about that one.

Matt
Airchalenged
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Posted: Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 04:55 AM UTC
Okay so here is a better story for the dio. On June 27th, 1944 Scottish Infantry of the 15th Infantry Division's 44th and 46th Infantry Brigades were supported by Tanks (Mk V and Stuarts) of the 29th Armored Brigade in a push North of the Oden River to clear the area of any German presence in the lead-up towards the assualt on Caen. Men of the 8th Royal Scots and supporting armor have come up against some opposition in the form of a Stug, or some other tank mistaken for a Stug at a quick glance, and the infantry are clearing off of the tank.

My other thoughts would be similar to Phil's idea and already have the infantry in the roadside ditch awaiting the results of the stug v. mk v duel.

The infantry is on the way to my lhs from their whole saler. I'll try and get some picks of the tank up tonight or tomorrow depending on my school work load.
jjumbo
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Posted: Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 05:09 AM UTC
Hey Matthew,
You can use your kit as planned, all you need is the correct tracks and markings.
The M4A4 aka Sherman V was the primary type used by the British and the Allied armies that they supplied.
The only thing wrong with the Orange Box M4A4 is the type of track supplied with the kit,
It's the T48 rubber chevron type rather than the T62 type more commonly seen on British M4A4's.
The Sherman Register track types
FYI, at least one of the Shermans used in BOB was a Canadian produced Grizzly, a variant of the M4A1.
188 built in were built in Montreal with dry pin tracks and the majority were kept in Canada for training.
Some were sent to the U.K. and, AFAIK, were sold or given to Portugal.
Cheers

jjumbo
Airchalenged
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Posted: Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 05:13 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hey Matthew,
You can use your kit as planned, all you need is the correct tracks and markings.
The M4A4 aka Sherman V was the primary type used by the British and the Allied armies that they supplied.
The only thing wrong with the Orange Box M4A4 is the type of track supplied with the kit,
It's the T48 rubber chevron type rather than the T62 type more commonly seen on British M4A4's.
The Sherman Register track types
FYI, the Sherman used in BOB was a Canadian produced Grizzly, a variant of the M4A1.
188 built in were built in Montreal with dry pin tracks and the majority were kept in Canada for training.
Some were sent to the U.K. and, AFAIK, were sold or given to Portugal.
Cheers

jjumbo



Thanks John. I had a feeling I would have to replace the tracks but not because of authenticity. They don't fit nicely under the front fender. I had to do some squeezing and cursing just to test fit them. Thanks for that tip it now gives me a more credible reason to change them.

Do you have any idea where I could get a set of these tracks for fairly cheap. I found a set for 35 bucks and another for 28 bucks but don't want to have to spend that much if i don't need to. Finding the decals is proving a challenged. Archer has the numbers but doesn't have any of the bull unit symbol markings... Any help?


I was only using the BOB scene as a reference.
jjumbo
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Posted: Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 05:41 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks John. I had a feeling I would have to replace the tracks but not because of authenticity. They don't fit nicely under the front fender. I had to do some squeezing and cursing just to test fit them. Thanks for that tip it now gives me a more credable reason to change them.



Hey Matthew,
I have the same kit and wasn't too happy with the track type that Dragon provided with the kit.
I like the DS styrene tracks, it would just be great to see Dragon produce more variants of Sherman tracks in their DS styrene !!
If you want a set of accurate tracks but don't want to go insane assembling the indy type tracks available, pick up a set of the T62's from AFV Club.
I was recently able to get four sets from Squadron but, unfortunately, they're now out of stock and I think they may be OOP.
They are made for the long hull M4A4 and, if you can find a set, they will save you a lot of time and grief !!
Cheers

jjumbo
Removed by original poster on 01/14/10 - 18:25:45 (GMT).
jjumbo
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Posted: Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 06:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Finding the decals is proving a challenged. Archer has the numbers but doesn't have any of the bull unit symbol markings... Any help?



Hey Matthew,
The decal set from Tamiya's old Churchill Crocodile kit had the "bull's head in the triangle" marking.
I think I have some in my spares box but maybe someone a little closer to NC can help you out.
Failing that, PM me your address and I'll see if I can find and mail them to you.
Cheers

jjumbo
Airchalenged
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Posted: Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 10:16 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Finding the decals is proving a challenged. Archer has the numbers but doesn't have any of the bull unit symbol markings... Any help?



Hey Matthew,
The decal set from Tamiya's old Churchill Crocodile kit had the "bull's head in the triangle" marking.
I think I have some in my spares box but maybe someone a little closer to NC can help you out.
Failing that, PM me your address and I'll see if I can find and mail them to you.
Cheers

jjumbo



That's not the same decal. But thanks anyway. Would you be willing to send me a set of the tracks? Squadron says they (AFV) are Out of Stock and they are the only producers that appear with a set of them.

here is what the marking looks like:

29th Armored Brigade
jjumbo
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Posted: Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 12:28 PM UTC

Quoted Text

That's not the same decal. But thanks anyway. Would you be willing to send me a set of the tracks? Squadron says they (AFV) are Out of Stock and they are the only producers that appear with a set of them.



Hey Matthew,
Sorry, I got the wrong "bull" !!!
Tamiya's Cromwell kit comes with a couple of those insignia.
Same offer stands if you can't find any closer to home.
And sorry but it's taken me several years to find those tracks and I've got plans and kits for all four !!!
Cheers

jjumbo
Airchalenged
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Posted: Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 12:46 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

That's not the same decal. But thanks anyway. Would you be willing to send me a set of the tracks? Squadron says they (AFV) are Out of Stock and they are the only producers that appear with a set of them.



Hey Matthew,
Sorry, I got the wrong "bull" !!!
Tamiya's Cromwell kit comes with a couple of those insignia.
Same offer stands if you can't find any closer to home.
And sorry but it's taken me several years to find those tracks and I've got plans and kits for all four !!!
Cheers

jjumbo



Darn

I'm going to mock up a set of stencils to do the decals but thanks for the offer.

I'll try and get some photos of the Sherman so far posted tomorrow and do some prep work on a base. I'm thinking round with the road and part of the ditch going along one of the sides.
Zaltar
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Posted: Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 02:44 PM UTC

Quoted Text


FYI, at least one of the Shermans used in BOB was a Canadian produced Grizzly, a variant of the M4A1.



I thought so; I recognized the tracks immediately as those of the Grizzly.

This should prove to be a great build!

zaltar
Dangeroo
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Posted: Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 07:10 PM UTC
Matthew,

I liked your original concept well, I think you should keep the figs on top of the tank. Looking forward to this coming together.

BTW: Something prompted me to look at this post, because initially I thought "Great, another StuG... "

Cheerio!
Airchalenged
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Posted: Friday, January 15, 2010 - 04:56 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Matthew,

I liked your original concept well, I think you should keep the figs on top of the tank. Looking forward to this coming together.

BTW: Something prompted me to look at this post, because initially I thought "Great, another StuG... "

Cheerio!



Not quite what you expected but glad you like it. I am leaning more towards the initial idea. It all depends on the amount of hacking and chopping I'll have to do.

Pictures to come in a few minutes.
Airchalenged
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Posted: Friday, January 15, 2010 - 05:07 AM UTC
Sherman as it stands at the moment.









Pyromaniac
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Posted: Friday, January 15, 2010 - 05:57 AM UTC
looks good. Quite a few little bits of spue still attached to the parts though, are you going to get rid of those?
Airchalenged
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Posted: Friday, January 15, 2010 - 06:03 AM UTC

Quoted Text

looks good. Quite a few little bits of spue still attached to the parts though, are you going to get rid of those?



Yeah most of them I didn't notice until you just said that and I looked at the pictures again. I also have to fill in some holes. Would normal builders putty work for filling in the holes and some of the nicks?
jjumbo
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Posted: Friday, January 15, 2010 - 06:19 AM UTC
Hey Matt,
Looks like a good start.
I think you may want to shim up that gap between the transmisson cover and the hull, it should be tighter.
You can also lose the .50 cal, most British and Canadian units got rid of them or replaced them with .30 cal Brownings. Academy's U.S. Machine Gun Set, kit #1384 has some nice .30 cals and is a cheap solution.
Cheers

jjumbo
Airchalenged
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Posted: Friday, January 15, 2010 - 11:11 AM UTC
Thanks Pyro for pointing out the extra sprue and stuff attached. Without that I wouldn't have noticed that I was missing the additional plating on the sides.


Quoted Text

Hey Matt,
Looks like a good start.
I think you may want to shim up that gap between the transmisson cover and the hull, it should be tighter.
You can also lose the .50 cal, most British and Canadian units got rid of them or replaced them with .30 cal Brownings. Academy's U.S. Machine Gun Set, kit #1384 has some nice .30 cals and is a cheap solution.
Cheers

jjumbo



Which peice is the transmission cover? I don't know my tank parts I assume it's the second picture. Should I shave off the lip and fill in the gap or what?

Since these photos I have shaved off and filed down all of the extra bits of flash and sprue and filled in the holes with joint compound. And I poped the left front hatch clean off on accident. I took the right one off too and glued both shut. Now I only need one tanker . Tomorrow I'll spray everything black and put on a base coat while I await John's package (or rather envelope) of decals.

Should there be a rib going through the middle of the bolts conecting the sides to the bottom? (barely visible in the first photo) Or should it be filed away?

Thanks again.
Matt
jjumbo
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Posted: Friday, January 15, 2010 - 03:55 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Which peice is the transmission cover? I don't know my tank parts I assume it's the second picture. Should I shave off the lip and fill in the gap or what?

Since these photos I have shaved off and filed down all of the extra bits of flash and sprue and filled in the holes with joint compound. And I poped the left front hatch clean off on accident. I took the right one off too and glued both shut. Now I only need one tanker . Tomorrow I'll spray everything black and put on a base coat while I await John's package (or rather envelope) of decals.

Should there be a rib going through the middle of the bolts conecting the sides to the bottom? (barely visible in the first photo) Or should it be filed away?

Thanks again.
Matt



Hey Matt,
Here's what the Formation's replacement 3 piece transmission cover looks.



There shouldn't be a gap between the top of the cover and the front hull or glacis plate.
The covers bolted flanges should be snugged up tighter to the glacis, you can see that there's 2 small slots there.
Not sure of what you mean by a rib going through the middle of the bolts, can you give us a picture ?
Cheers

jjumbo

p.s. You need to add the fire extinguishers on the upper rear hull that were present on British Commonwealth Shermans.
I'll check my kit for the part's number.
You also need to add weld beads to the applique cheek armour on the turret.
Airchalenged
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Posted: Friday, January 15, 2010 - 04:19 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Which peice is the transmission cover? I don't know my tank parts I assume it's the second picture. Should I shave off the lip and fill in the gap or what?

Since these photos I have shaved off and filed down all of the extra bits of flash and sprue and filled in the holes with joint compound. And I poped the left front hatch clean off on accident. I took the right one off too and glued both shut. Now I only need one tanker . Tomorrow I'll spray everything black and put on a base coat while I await John's package (or rather envelope) of decals.

Should there be a rib going through the middle of the bolts conecting the sides to the bottom? (barely visible in the first photo) Or should it be filed away?

Thanks again.
Matt



Hey Matt,
Here's what the Formation's replacement 3 piece transmission cover looks.



There shouldn't be a gap between the top of the cover and the front hull or glacis plate.
The covers bolted flanges should be snugged up tighter to the glacis, you can see that there's 2 small slots there.
Not sure of what you mean by a rib going through the middle of the bolts, can you give us a picture ?
Cheers

jjumbo

p.s. You need to add the fire extinguishers on the upper rear hull that were present on British Commonwealth Shermans.
I'll check my kit for the part's number.
You also need to add weld beads to the applique cheek armour on the turret.



I'll post a photo tomorrow. I'll have to shave off the lip between the cover and the hull. I already filled in the gap with joint filler.

How would I go about making weld beads? just some joint filler and then once mostly dry score it to give the ridge effect?

I base coated everything with black and then did a test with a gray green paint color I had. The test didn't work out to well so I will have to go get a Sherman Green color from the hobby shop.

What do I do about all of the raised text on various parts. Are those model ID numbers for Dragon or are they part of the Sherman itself?

Thanks again for all the help and pointers John.

ps the two hatches are no longer attached. I found some Tankers I am thinking about using some pulled them off again before they fully dried.
jjumbo
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Posted: Friday, January 15, 2010 - 09:56 PM UTC
Hey Matt,
These techniques will help you with ideas for making weld beads:
Milliput weld beads
Styrene rod weld beads
And don't remove those numbers you see, they are casting marks.
They're production serial numbers for mass produced cast metal parts like the suspension, the turret and transmission covers.
Cheers

jjumbo
Dangeroo
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Posted: Saturday, January 16, 2010 - 04:01 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Matthew,

I liked your original concept well, I think you should keep the figs on top of the tank. Looking forward to this coming together.

BTW: Something prompted me to look at this post, because initially I thought "Great, another StuG... "

Cheerio!



Not quite what you expected but glad you like it. I am leaning more towards the initial idea. It all depends on the amount of hacking and chopping I'll have to do.

Pictures to come in a few minutes.



OK, I realize my sarcasm wasn't quite obvious... What I wanted to say is that normally I wouldn't look at StuGs because I'm an allied modeller... So I like a lot what I see here! Great start, I'm sure you'll remove the sprue marks before you go to painting. Why is the interior rim of the drivers hatches so irregular?

I tried both posibilities of weld beads and also normal putty structured with a small screw driver (I masked off the area around the weld bead). Can't really say which one works best but I think I prefer the putty versions over the stretched sprue.

Keep goin'! Cheerio!
 _GOTOTOP