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Bogged down 1/35 KV2
Heatseeker64
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Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 - 07:25 PM UTC
I know these things bogged down in real life, but I have managed to scale it down to 1/35!

I have long been a fan of the Russian KV2 and about 15 years back I got a hold of the Tamiya kit, which I could never bring myself to build because it was too toy like.

Along came Trumpeter with not one but two versions and I bought both. The earlier "Big Turret" version is still sitting on teh shelf unmolested but about three years ago I started the later version and I got it this far in about two weeks:



Anyway, you know hot it is - house moves, job changes ... about two years back I actually placed the hulk on the new work bench and started on the tracks ... and there is stayed.







Another hazard with stalled projects is bits go missing, which dooms them never to be completed. But today I (literally) dusted off the hulk and chased down the box to find all the bits I need are there!

Going back to the start of the project, I was attracted to the build because it was a "no brainer" ... the fit was flawless and there were no pesky intricate detail parts like headlight guards. Russian tanks generally had no stowage and 99.9 per cent of them were olive green, and there was enough variation in the shade to make it just about impossible for anyone to say that you were wrong. Sure, the barrel is unlike any I have ever seen in photographs, and I have never seen any pictorial evidence of KV2s with slogans, but sometimes it's nice to build "out of the box".

Anyway, today I gave the dusty kit a wash in soapy water and applied the decals just to get the tracks turning on the project again.

Looking at it, after three years, I reckon there's only a few days work left and the fiddly stuff (I repaced the grab handles with brass) is all ready done.

I'm not going to beat up the vehicle too much as it appears that few KV2s managed to fight on long enough to become world weary (either lost through poor tactics or too mechanical breakdown) but I do plan to put a few chinks in the armour (there is plenty of pictorial evidence of KV2s taking multiple hits) and then give the lot a wash and dry brush (the numbers underneath the turret ladders would have become scuffed very quickly).

The jury's still out as to whether I give the vehicle a Russian crew, or have it being inspected by victorious Germans ...
Heatseeker64
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Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 - 07:27 PM UTC
PS ... does anyone know if the return rollers on KV2s were all steel or rubber rimmed?
casualmodeler
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Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 - 07:34 PM UTC
I beliewe they were all steel.
alanmac
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Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 - 10:07 PM UTC
Hi Mick

For info.

http://www.battlefield.ru/en/armors/28-heavy-tanks/48-kv2.html

Hope it helps in the build etc.

Alan

P.S. What's happening on the Sturer Emil build these days ?
alanmac
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Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 - 10:12 PM UTC
On the rollers



from the link I mentioned in the previous post.

Alan
Heatseeker64
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Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 - 10:23 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Mick

For info.

http://www.battlefield.ru/en/armors/28-heavy-tanks/48-kv2.html

Hope it helps in the build etc.

Alan

P.S. What's happening on the Sturer Emil build these days ?


Thanks for the link mate - now have the running gear installed and in the process of putting tracks on the Emil ... the only thing stopping me from painting is the fact I lost one of the rectangular light units (there is two options in the kit) - you don't happen to have one spare, do you?
alanmac
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Posted: Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 12:49 AM UTC
Hi Mike

Not sure about the spare. I've not really started my Emil yet, just a few bits put together.

I'm a bit miffed over the Hobbyboss tracks to say the least Not only do they have five, yes five sprue attachments per link to clean up, there are two "sets" of track links in the box "A" and "B" but no instructions on how to use them. Add to that the sprocket is wrong and badly moulded in its detail, the original Trumpeter one is better.

Use the Trumpeter one you could say, ah yes, but the Hobbyboss tracks are wider and you need to expand the width of the Trumpeter sprockets to fit !! I tried a few Hobbyboss links and the fit is poor, with me having to shave bits off to get a close tight fit ..... on each link. Add the sprocket situation to the hours of clean up ahead that just about does it for me !! Sadly whilst the kit supplied rubbery ones are fairly detailed mine have tiny amounts of flash on each side of the links.

I'm at a bit of a crossroads as to what to do with the kit. I had in mind at one time the Armourscale barrel and Voyager PE set but add the cost of Fruil tracks etc. in and I'm losing the enthusiasm for this kit. It's not the kits fault. Out the box it's a great kit, and a great price but you know what us modellers are like....

Alan
Petition2God
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Posted: Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 03:45 AM UTC
It's a great kit and a nice build there, Mick. I am currently working on the same kit- my 2nd Russian kit ever. The build was easy and enjoyable! So different from detailed modern armor.
By the way, what's this "rectangular light unit" you are referring to?
Heatseeker64
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Posted: Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 02:04 PM UTC

Quoted Text

It's a great kit and a nice build there, Mick. I am currently working on the same kit- my 2nd Russian kit ever. The build was easy and enjoyable! So different from detailed modern armor.
By the way, what's this "rectangular light unit" you are referring to?


I presume you're talking about the KV-2? We sort of got side tracked there and the "rectangular light unit" I was talking about was from the Sturer Emil Kit, which is another excellent Trumpeter offering.

Should have some more KV-2 pix up soon.
Petition2God
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Posted: Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 04:24 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

It's a great kit and a nice build there, Mick. I am currently working on the same kit- my 2nd Russian kit ever. The build was easy and enjoyable! So different from detailed modern armor.
By the way, what's this "rectangular light unit" you are referring to?


I presume you're talking about the KV-2? We sort of got side tracked there and the "rectangular light unit" I was talking about was from the Sturer Emil Kit, which is another excellent Trumpeter offering.

Should have some more KV-2 pix up soon.


O, OK. Ha ha! Yeah, i was a bit confused.
Here is what I have so far. My KV-2 is ready for primer. I'll be following your blog as I try to finish mine. Lead the way, please. O, mine is OOB except for the metal barrel from RB Models. I got the barrel for $4.50 USD with free shipping from Luckymodel.com. Couldn't resist! Yes, keep us posted on your progress.



By the way, the tracks were a bit tricky to fit tightly- maybe you can enlighten me how it went with yours.
CMOT
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ARMORAMA
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Posted: Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 05:17 PM UTC
The line around the middle of the barrel needs to be filled in. There is a joint at that point but even on the real thing it was nearly impossible to see.
Finch
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Posted: Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 05:36 PM UTC
I don't mean to go all rivet-counter on you, but you might want to consider removing the decals. I have yet to see a photo of a real KV-2 with any Red Army markings. Of course, not all 250 of them got photographed so no one can tell you it is wrong.....but the slogan you've got says "For Stalin!" on one side and "Stalin! For" on the other. Doesn't quite make sense.

Hope you find this helpful and hey, it is your model - have fun and build it any way you want
Heatseeker64
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Posted: Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 05:40 PM UTC
The build's looking great James ... tracks are my next challenge, although these Trumpeter KVs go together like a dream!

Here a few update pics ... these vehicles were only in service for a short time, but they faced the Germans at their best and copped a heap of intense battle punishment while generally not copping abuse like distorted fenders asscoiated with normal wear and tear on a vehicle.

There is plenty of pictorial evidence of multiple hits on KV2s, but many of these may have been inflicted post battle to test the armour against the German guns and ammo:



I thought I'd put a few "chinks" in to my build, while keeping the rest relatively "straight":







I'll give the project a bit of a wash and dry brush soon to tone it down a bit and then work on nutting out them tracks!
Heatseeker64
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Posted: Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 05:46 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I don't mean to go all rivet-counter on you, but you might want to consider removing the decals. I have yet to see a photo of a real KV-2 with any Red Army markings. Of course, not all 250 of them got photographed so no one can tell you it is wrong.....but the slogan you've got says "For Stalin!" on one side and "Stalin! For" on the other. Doesn't quite make sense.

Hope you find this helpful and hey, it is your model - have fun and build it any way you want


Yeah, I agree ... if anything about the only "graffiti" that was added to KVs was by the Germans ... the great thing about a plain green turret is it is easy to strp and re-paint.
Klinker
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Posted: Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 08:53 PM UTC
I like the big old KV 2's and yours seems to be off to a really good start!!! I like your few 'chinks' nicely done.
Can you tell me what Green paint/brand you used?
Heatseeker64
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Posted: Saturday, January 30, 2010 - 09:26 PM UTC
Ya know ... it's funny - two sets of cleaned up KV-2 track can sit of your work bench literally gathering dust for a year or two, and then you go and settle down for an hour after mowing the lawn and you get them suckers together!



The instructions are long gone, but I was able to make the track fit both sides no problem and I had a few individual links left over.

Obviously there would be a problem if you wanted some articulation in the bottom run, but in that case you'd use the very acceptable rubber band tracks that Trumpeter provide.

I had three Tamiya KVs on the shelf and I never got around to building them because of the woeful track, let alone their overall toy-like appearance.

These tracks are great, and the whole kit comes in at less than a set of Model Kasten track!

I've assembled the complete tracks runs so they are a "drop fit" ... I can position the drive sprocket and idler and drop them on to their axles. The road wheels then go on very easily, and then after a dab of something like liquid nails, I'll put some packing between the top of the track and the guards and install the other half of the return rollers.

The way this track has gone together, a man could be tempted to build a few more Trumpeter KVs ....

Anyway, gave the track a base coat of gun metal and dullcote ... plan to put some mud under the fenders and around the suspension before I install the weathered and muddied track:



Should have this baby sitting on track by the end of the week,

Needless to say, I have re-painted the turret (I used USAF olive green from a Tamiya can, but once it's all shaded and weathered, I don't think anyone could pick the base colour).

I know there is no photo evidence of any form of KV2 having any slogans, but I am still toying with the idea because the behometh looks quite bland in plain green.

Not far to go!
MrNeil
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Posted: Sunday, January 31, 2010 - 03:35 PM UTC
Hi Mick,

Greetings from an expat Aussie in Seppo-land.

Couple of quick points:

The Trumpeter KV-2 kit represents a machine from the second production batch manufactured in May/June 1941. As such, you need to take the aft-most stowage box on the left-hand side and move it to the right hand. The change was made in late January 1941.

In the same vein, add the flange back around the driver's episcope, like those on the turret episcopes. The flanges were added in March 1941.

If you can get it out, remove the gun barrel and replace it with the Jordi Rubio item. The kit part is 3mm too short. Don't use the Aber or Lion Roar ones because they have the grooves which are NOT present on the real thing. The grooves were weld seams in the sleeved barrel and are barely evident on the real thing. If you can't get the barrel out, at least fill the grooves.

As numerous people have pointed out, there is no evidence to support that the Soviets painted slogans on the KV-2s. I do have several photographs showing tactical numbers on the rear turret face, but that's all.

To correct, respectfully, Danny's comment about the number of KV-2s manufactured, there were a total of 210 including the four pre-production machines in Jan/Feb 1940, the 20 series production KV s bolshoiy bashniy in June/July 1940 and the two production batches (86 and then 100) of KV-2s in Nov/Dec 1940 and May/June 1941. This information comes from LKZ factory archive documents.

Oh and the return rollers in use at that time featured pressed steel hubs and rubber tires. Don't use the vehicle at the CAF Museum in Moscow as a guide since it's a hybrid with an MT-2 turret from a KV-2 on a late-1941 KV-1 hull.

All that said, your model looks fantastic. Nice job.

Cheers,

Neil
Heatseeker64
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Posted: Sunday, January 31, 2010 - 06:42 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Mick,

Greetings from an expat Aussie in Seppo-land.

Couple of quick points:

The Trumpeter KV-2 kit represents a machine from the second production batch manufactured in May/June 1941. As such, you need to take the aft-most stowage box on the left-hand side and move it to the right hand. The change was made in late January 1941.

In the same vein, add the flange back around the driver's episcope, like those on the turret episcopes. The flanges were added in March 1941.

If you can get it out, remove the gun barrel and replace it with the Jordi Rubio item. The kit part is 3mm too short. Don't use the Aber or Lion Roar ones because they have the grooves which are NOT present on the real thing. The grooves were weld seams in the sleeved barrel and are barely evident on the real thing. If you can't get the barrel out, at least fill the grooves.

As numerous people have pointed out, there is no evidence to support that the Soviets painted slogans on the KV-2s. I do have several photographs showing tactical numbers on the rear turret face, but that's all.

To correct, respectfully, Danny's comment about the number of KV-2s manufactured, there were a total of 210 including the four pre-production machines in Jan/Feb 1940, the 20 series production KV s bolshoiy bashniy in June/July 1940 and the two production batches (86 and then 100) of KV-2s in Nov/Dec 1940 and May/June 1941. This information comes from LKZ factory archive documents.

Oh and the return rollers in use at that time featured pressed steel hubs and rubber tires. Don't use the vehicle at the CAF Museum in Moscow as a guide since it's a hybrid with an MT-2 turret from a KV-2 on a late-1941 KV-1 hull.

All that said, your model looks fantastic. Nice job.

Cheers,

Neil


Thanks for all that Neil, and I will take it on board when I bould my next KV-2 (I've enjoyed this one).

I pretty much kept to the instruction and "out of the box" with this build because I generally get bogged down in tinkering with other projects.

I find you've got to be very careful when being definitive about any type of Russian equipment (I have a small collection of Sovier/Russian/Finnish small arms) ... in the change over from various models, "hybrids" rolled off the production line, and there were also unit and factory repairs.

I have seen a KV1S hull fitted with a 1940 slab sided turret, but that could have been cobbled up in the field as an expedient.

That said, when the layout changed for the KV-2s in March 1941 it was peace time in Russia so you'd expect some sort of uniformity.

All that taken in to account, because the parts are well and truly set in place and painted, I reckon I'll leave this beast as I've built it, although I might have a crack at correcting the barrel.

But I will take your advice on board for the next late KV-2 I'll build!
Heatseeker64
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Posted: Monday, February 01, 2010 - 11:55 PM UTC
Bit more progress ... added some metallic shade to the wheels:



And installed the track and wheels, which got a coating of mud before and after installation:



Note that the turret has only had a base coat of green because I stripped and slogan and pland to add 3mm to the barrel and fill in them ridges:



It's starting to look like a KV-2:



The white spots are water droplets that settled on to the lacquer ... they will dry brush out:



Time to let the lacquer settle and then put the model on to a simple base before some more weathering!
Heatseeker64
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Posted: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 11:55 PM UTC
Had a crack at lengthening the barrel by 3mm ... whether it will make any noticeable difference, I am not sure. I also filled in the ridges. I cut the barrel and inserted a brass tube, which I affixed with two part epoxy, and while I was at it I did the earlier KV "Big Turret" (I'm not going to launch in to another KV-2 build until I square away a few more of them unfinished hulks):



I filled the gap and the ridges with some putty, which I'll take a sanding stick to after it completely hardens in a few days.



You will see I've also started to pick out a few details on the later KV-2 ... I'll set it on a base before I do some more weathering. The next quandary will be whether to give it a Russian crew, or have it being inspected by bewildered and victorious Germans.
Heatseeker64
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Posted: Friday, February 05, 2010 - 10:30 PM UTC
Just sanded the barrels down and gave them a coat of Mr Surfacer, which I will let harden overnight before a final sand:



clay_cliff
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Posted: Saturday, February 06, 2010 - 03:47 AM UTC
It looks very good. How did you make the mud? I want to make it for my T-34. Best regards.

José.
Finch
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Posted: Saturday, February 06, 2010 - 06:05 AM UTC

Quoted Text



I find you've got to be very careful when being definitive about any type of Russian equipment


True, but one thing I've learned is that if Neil Stokes tells you something about a KV you can take that to the bank.
Yoni_Lev
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Posted: Saturday, February 06, 2010 - 08:43 AM UTC

Quoted Text

True, but one thing I've learned is that if Neil Stokes tells you something about a KV you can take that to the bank.


I'll second that. Also, Neil's KV Seminar should be required reading for anyone with even a passing interest in the tanks.

That being said, Mick...I think your KV looked nice even with the incorrect slogans and barrel. Nice work on getting those fixed up.

-YL
MrNeil
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Posted: Saturday, February 06, 2010 - 01:25 PM UTC
Yoni and Danny, thanks for the votes of confidence

Looking at the KV Seminar materials though, I need to make some changes to them using the latest drawings that will be in the book, since there are a few minor details that need updating based on the latest research.

Cheers,

Neil
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