Hi all,
im working on a M2A2 bradley from B comany, 2nd BN, 130 inf reg, 3rd Battalion Combat Team in Iraq.

The markings on the front final drive housing are:
3I (thats a "three eye", not thirty one)
I-30I (eye-thirty eye)

and on left B13

I understand the B13 (13th vehicle in Bravo co), and think the -30I is for 130 infantry ....

BUT, what about the large painted numbers on the rear of the vehilce and on the ID plate that is on the turret basket. I dont have any photos of this area and want to add the right number/chevron combo to the rear ramp. Any help or educated guess would be greatly appreciated!
thanks
Andy

Your unit descrition sounds off. It sounds like you are actually building a vehicle from 3rd Infantry Division, 1st Battalion (Bn), 30th Infantry Regiment. 3i 1-30i (lower case "i"s are upper case on the vehicle, just lower case here so they don't look like "1"s)

If you have a pic, that would be a big help in identifying it as well.

If so, when are you depicting it?

The side markings are Bn ID numbers. I have the BN ID numbers for all 3ID units during OIF 1, initial invasion (MAR-AUG '03) on another computer and can access them later if that is what you are looking for.

Yes, i was wondering about that...i was just reading from the caption I pulled from the DOD image site. Thanks for clarifying.. 30th IR it is then.




Date on the pic is 4/2005. Looking at the photo im wondering if it isnt a "recycled" vehicle from earlier deployment as it has many early M2A2 features mixed with ERA blocks, etc. Plus the overall body is a pea color light green.



that would be helpful. It looks like by this time the side numbers were partialy painted over / covered with teh ERA. Do you think the origional numbers were still on the rear ramp and ID plate on the turret basket?

Im going to post a copy of the pic im working from ...stay tuned.

The original numbers could be left overs on the rear ramp and or bastle rack board. As vehicles were recycled, many numbers were repainted and/or left on. It depended on the unit.

If it has ERA, it would not be from the initial invasion timeframe though. ERA wasn't seen until mid '04.

Here is another option...

It could be a vehicle from 2nd Battalion, 130th Infantry Regiment (IL ARNG - Army National Guard), attached to the 256th Brigade Combat Team (ARNG), 3rd Infantry Division during OIF 3, 2005-2006?

If so, sorry, I have no details on the numbers then.

well that would match the caption more, as they discribe it as a vehicle from the IL ARNG...and the timeframe would be right... So maybe the ARNG used some older vehicles that went through some maintenace, then had ERA added? (that would explain the odd green color on the hull...repaint from available depot stocks)
here is 2 pics of the same vehicle..

The later timeframe looks more feasible based on the ERA. I can't tell the Bn ID #'s. They look like a 3-digit #, which is what 3ID went to on later deployments. The bumper number is definitely 3ID, 1-30 IN though.

13th Vehicle of the company may not be accurate. In my experience numbering of vehicles goes like this
1-1 (1st platoon 1st squad)
1-2 (1st platoon 2nd squad)
1-3(1st platoon 3rd squad)
1-7 (1st platoon Platoon Sergeant), I have alao seen 1-7 replaced with 1-9 for example
1-6 (1st platoon Platoon Leader)
Hope that helps

ahhhhh....ok, so that helps. Looks like the large number on the ramp, right most, is the squad number.

But, as Gino pointed out, that is good for OIF 1, but not this later version.. Maybe there is reminants of the old number. I may take some artistic licence. Just hate to leave the rear ramp totaly blank.

This vehicle is from the 3rd ID 1st BN 30 Infantry Regiment. So the bumper numbers go like this

3I 1-30I B13

There are only 4 Bradleys in an Infantry Platoon. This vehicle is the 3rd vehicle from 1st Platoon. Hence 13. The 11 Vehicle is the Platoon Leader, 12 is the Platoon Leaders wingman, 13 is the Platoon Sergeants wingman, and 14 is the Platoon Sergeant. The number on the side is hard for me to figure out as well. You would have to either find someone that was stationed in that unit when it was at Fort Benning, or find some other pics from that time frame.

Based on the picture date of April 2005, That M2 would have been a home station vehicle from Ft Benning and the picture location is around Baqubah. at that time, 1-30IN was serving as the Armored Reconnaissance Squadron for 3rd BCT, 3ID, who was attached to 42ID as part of TF Liberty in MND Central. In 2006, 3-15 IN in 2nd BCT was redesignated as 1-30IN and the 3rd BCT's ARS became 3-1 Cav.

The skirt marking that should be 31 followed by the Company/Troop/Battery letter. This was a slight modificaion of the Army wide marking system that 3ID used during the invasion of Iraq. The first number was for the BCT - All of 1st BCT's equipment started with a "1", 2nd's with a "2", etc. The Division HQ vehicles started with "0". The second number in the array was to identify what battalion the vehicle belonged to: The BCT HQ and Troops Battalion had "0". the ARS was "1", the Combined Arms Battalions were "2 & 3", The Artillery Battalion used "4" and the Forward Support Battalion used "5". In 1st BCT, very few of the combat markings remained or were visable after the drawing of Brad reactive armor, add on armoring, drawing new (to 3ID) tanks. and use of in theater M1114s, etc...

Since the pic looks to be B-13 of 1-30IN, then the side skirt markings should be 31B, which it does look like in the second picture, well at least the upper half of 31B....

Probably TMI

John

[quote]


I just want to clarify, since there were a couple of conflicting posts on coding for vehicle position within the troop. The info previously posted above seems consistent with everything I have studied about Army callsigns- the commander is always "six," e.g. Apache 6 would be A Troop CO, Apache 26 would be A Troop, 2d PLT LDR, troop S-3 would be Apache 3, etc. Has this changed? I am doing a diorama of 1/9 Cav in Mosul, and I want to get the skirts and bumpers correct.
Speaking of which, does anyone know the SOP for numbering M1114s (Hummvees)? I want to depict an M3 and an M1114 from the same troop in 1/9 Cav.
Thanks for all the great info, guys, especially links to the proper TMs.

1-9 Cav was a cavalry company in name only (hence not called a troop, that is reserved for actual cavalry formations). Like all of 1st Cav Division (which is actually an armor division), 1-9 Cav is actually an infantry battalion. Some of the named "cav" units are armor as well.

For instance, 2-8 Cav and 1-12 Cav were the armor battalions in 1st Bde. 2-5 Cav was the infantry batalion.

2-9 and 1-9 Cav were infantry battalions. Basically, 5th Cav battalions were infantry, 1-7th Cav was the divisional cav squadron (the only cav formation in 1st Cav), 8th Cav was armor, 9th Cav was infantry, and 12th Cav was armor.

There isn't an S-3 in a company level unit.

The commander's tank is normally the "6" vehicle, but platoon leaders are the "1" vehicle. The platoon sergeant's ride is the "4" vehicle. Additionally, 1st Cav did bumper numbering a little different than the rest of the army.

In most units, the commander's tank was -66 and the XO was -65, but in 1st Cav the CO was -60 and the XO -50. Also the "7" in most units was the 1st sergeant, but in 1st Cav it was the "9".

B-13 does not represent the 13th vehicle in B Cmpany. It is pronounced Bravo-One-Three and is the 3rd vehicle in first platoon. Normally it is the platoon sergeant's wingman.

Brigade numerations are normally not on a battalion's vehicle bumper markings.

The way you describe the bumper markings appear to say:

3rd Infantry Division "3I"
1st Battalion, 30th Infantry Regiment "1-30I"
B Company, 1st Platoon, 3rd vehicle. B-13, his callsign would be Red 3.

US platoons are Red, White and Blue for 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Green is used if there is a 4th platoon. Black is used for company HQs. Black 6 is the CO, Black 5 the XO, Black 7 (or niner in 1st Cav) for the first sergeant.

Because of stencil limitations (Joe Snuffy cutting bumper markings on a Manilla folder with an old razor blade) the letter "i" and number "1" are the same stencil. It adds to the confusion when looking at infantry battalion markings. Most folks don't know if it is 301st battalion or 30th Infantry Battalion, but soldiers in the unit and surrounding units would know.

Also not every infantry battalion choses to use the letter "i" to designate their infantry battalion nor does every battalion use a dash "-" in their markings. Sometimes just a space is used and the use is probably based on what a 24 year old sergeant tells an 18 yr old private to do.

[quote]1-9 Cav was a cavalry company in name only (hence not called a troop, that is reserved for actual cavalry formations). Like all of 1st Cav Division (which is actually an armor division), 1-9 Cav is actually an infantry battalion. Some of the named "cav" units are armor as well.

For instance, 2-8 Cav and 1-12 Cav were the armor battalions in 1st Bde. 2-5 Cav was the infantry batalion.

2-9 and 1-9 Cav were infantry battalions. Basically, 5th Cav battalions were infantry, 1-7th Cav was the divisional cav squadron (the only cav formation in 1st Cav), 8th Cav was armor, 9th Cav was infantry, and 12th Cav was armor.

/quote]

According to the latest in a withering series of organizational restructures the Army has carried out since OIF, each division (including 1CD) is divided into Brigade Combat Teams (BCT), each of which is equipped with an Reconnaissance Surveillance Tracking and Acquisition squadron (RSTA), which takes the form of an Armored Reconnaissance Squadron (ARS). In the current organizational structure of 1CD, this is designated as the brigade Cavalry squadron, which is divided into troops. In keeping with the Army's (admirable) sensitivity to its own lineage, a large share of the RSTA (Cav) squadrons come from the 7th and 9th Cav. The change from battalion to squadron for 1/9 CAV occurred between 2005 and 2006, and is reflected in the way to which units are referred on the DVIDS site, ex:

http://www.dvidshub.net/image/22214/ssg-heisler-1-9-cav

Also, IAW FM 3-20.96 Heavy Brigade Combat Team Reconnaissance Squadron , 20SEP06, company-level units are referred to as "troops."

I know this is reference overkill, but I'm a teacher, and I always want to be sure.
Of course, now the Army will probably change it again....