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REVIEW
DML SAS with Welbike and Drop Tube
c5flies
Joined: October 21, 2007
KitMaker: 3,684 posts
Armorama: 2,938 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 03:02 PM UTC
Stefan Halter provides an In-box review of Dragon Models' rendition of the SAS with Welbike and Drop Tube.
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If you have comments or questions please post them here.
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If you have comments or questions please post them here.
Thanks!
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
Armorama: 11,675 posts
Posted: Friday, February 12, 2010 - 06:44 AM UTC
Hi Stefan,
Thanks for the review. It would seem to be a rushed effort as you say which is a pity, and a missed opportunity to bring something new along to the market.
Al
Thanks for the review. It would seem to be a rushed effort as you say which is a pity, and a missed opportunity to bring something new along to the market.
Al
Dangeroo
#023
Joined: March 13, 2009
KitMaker: 2,058 posts
Armorama: 1,656 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 14, 2010 - 09:07 AM UTC
James, thanks for posting the review.
Yeah, it's a pity they didn't invest a bit more time...
Cheers!
Stefan
PS: Hope you don't mind me referring to your article. It's just no use repetaing everything...
Yeah, it's a pity they didn't invest a bit more time...
Cheers!
Stefan
PS: Hope you don't mind me referring to your article. It's just no use repetaing everything...
Jmarles
Joined: November 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,138 posts
Armorama: 953 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 14, 2010 - 10:02 AM UTC
I believe a review on the same item on this website also discussed that the drop tube is severely underscaled. I'd go with the Tristar offering myself.....
exer
Joined: November 27, 2004
KitMaker: 6,048 posts
Armorama: 4,619 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 14, 2010 - 10:11 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I believe a review on the same item on this website also discussed that the drop tube is severely underscaled. I'd go with the Tristar offering myself.....
There isn't another review of this set on Armorama
Jmarles
Joined: November 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,138 posts
Armorama: 953 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 14, 2010 - 11:00 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI believe a review on the same item on this website also discussed that the drop tube is severely underscaled. I'd go with the Tristar offering myself.....
There isn't another review of this set on Armorama
Sorry, I'll clarify. On Sept. 22 2009 Jim Rae reviewed kit # 6585 and 6586. I guess the original incarnation, not the so-called "premium" set. From what I gather absolutely nothing has changed or improved with the premium kit. Old SAS figures that have not been documented as using the Welbike and a couple of naff arms thrown in. The undersized tube has not been changed or improved. Only thing "premium" about this kit is the price...
Tarok
Joined: July 28, 2004
KitMaker: 10,889 posts
Armorama: 3,245 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 14, 2010 - 11:14 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Sorry, I'll clarify. On Sept. 22 2009 Jim Rae reviewed kit # 6585 and 6586. I guess the original incarnation, not the so-called "premium" set. From what I gather absolutely nothing has changed or improved with the premium kit.
That was the initial news announcement, not a review. His comments are him editorialising, not reviewing.
Comparing the original box-art to that of the assembled figures on the rear of the box, it's evident that Figure B's arm/hand positions have been changed from holding the sten (?) gun to opening the tube. So it would be incorrect to say "absolutely nothing has changed".
exer
Joined: November 27, 2004
KitMaker: 6,048 posts
Armorama: 4,619 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 14, 2010 - 11:22 AM UTC
Quoted Text
On Sept. 22 2009 Jim Rae reviewed kit # 6585 and 6586.
That's not a review but a news item. Jim was commenting on the photos providied by DML he didn't have the kit in hand.
Jmarles
Joined: November 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,138 posts
Armorama: 953 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 14, 2010 - 11:28 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextSorry, I'll clarify. On Sept. 22 2009 Jim Rae reviewed kit # 6585 and 6586. I guess the original incarnation, not the so-called "premium" set. From what I gather absolutely nothing has changed or improved with the premium kit.
That was the initial news announcement, not a review. His comments are him editorialising, not reviewing.
Comparing the original box-art to that of the assembled figures on the rear of the box, it's evident that Figure B's arm/hand positions have been changed from holding the sten (?) gun to opening the tube. So it would be incorrect to say "absolutely nothing has changed".
I believe those are just the 'alternate" arms thrown in, aren't they? At any rate the larger issue of the drop tube size and the SAS' use of the welbike are my main issues with the kit.
Dangeroo
#023
Joined: March 13, 2009
KitMaker: 2,058 posts
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Posted: Sunday, February 14, 2010 - 07:35 PM UTC
Julian, well, I'm sorry to say I didn't have any measurements of the container, so I can't say anything about that. About the historical accuracy: As I said in the review, three of the figures can easily be converted to paratroopers which would solve that issue. And they are nice figures!
I would probably too, especially as I already have the SAS figure set.
Cheers!
Stefan
Quoted Text
I'd go with the Tristar offering myself...
I would probably too, especially as I already have the SAS figure set.
Cheers!
Stefan
Sandy
Joined: June 24, 2002
KitMaker: 628 posts
Armorama: 405 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 14, 2010 - 09:05 PM UTC
Hi all , A very good review , and thanks for the plug on my research .
I can now add a little more to the figure holding the tommy gun .
I have found proof that the smock was issued on a limited basis to ordinary troops in Aug and Sept 1944 . I have a photo of two of them on the outskirts of Armhem . I am unable to publish due to UK copy right law.
To add to the review the new set of arms , the cuffs have band all the way round this is an error and should be smoothed out .
If you want ref photo of the welbike and container then go to Tank Guys web site and look under real tanks then by country and you will find my photos the container it shows how the phto etch should be fitted to the edge .
cheers ian
http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~TANK-GUY/
I can now add a little more to the figure holding the tommy gun .
I have found proof that the smock was issued on a limited basis to ordinary troops in Aug and Sept 1944 . I have a photo of two of them on the outskirts of Armhem . I am unable to publish due to UK copy right law.
To add to the review the new set of arms , the cuffs have band all the way round this is an error and should be smoothed out .
If you want ref photo of the welbike and container then go to Tank Guys web site and look under real tanks then by country and you will find my photos the container it shows how the phto etch should be fitted to the edge .
cheers ian
http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~TANK-GUY/
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2010 - 04:51 AM UTC
When I first covered this item as a News report (NOT a Review 
) I could understand why they released it, it just didn't give much in the way of 'promise' It's interesting to see that my 'Editorial' was essentially correct:
It's a good (and FAIR) Review of a product which DML could have done so much more with..
) I could understand why they released it, it just didn't give much in the way of 'promise' It's interesting to see that my 'Editorial' was essentially correct:Quoted Text
Firstly, on a strictly historical note, the S.A.S. have (to the best of my knowledge) never been documented using the Welbike in combat deployment.
Regarding the figures, both of these sets are previous releases with the Paras having been somewhat overtaken by more modern releases from other manufacturers. That ISN'T to say that they can be discounted, they DO provide a good basis for upgrading. It is also worth bearing in mind that any manufacturer has to maximise the resources they have and there is nothing inherently wrong with re-issues.
On the debit side, the dimensions of the drop container, which portrays the Mark I, is, if the images are to be believed, dimensionally off. It appears to be both too short and not wide enough. A Welbike (in its folded) position, would easily fit in a Mark I with around 60cm of space remaining. It WASN'T a snug fit and was known to be padded with straw or blankets to protect the bike..
It's a good (and FAIR) Review of a product which DML could have done so much more with..
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
Armorama: 11,675 posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2010 - 05:32 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi all , A very good review , and thanks for the plug on my research .
I can now add a little more to the figure holding the tommy gun .
I have found proof that the smock was issued on a limited basis to ordinary troops in Aug and Sept 1944 . I have a photo of two of them on the outskirts of Armhem . I am unable to publish due to UK copy right law.
To add to the review the new set of arms , the cuffs have band all the way round this is an error and should be smoothed out .
If you want ref photo of the welbike and container then go to Tank Guys web site and look under real tanks then by country and you will find my photos the container it shows how the phto etch should be fitted to the edge .
cheers ian
http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~TANK-GUY/
Hi Ian,
Can you tell us the source of the photo re the smocks? I haven't noticed any Paras in putties yet during that period.
Al
Sandy
Joined: June 24, 2002
KitMaker: 628 posts
Armorama: 405 posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2010 - 05:57 AM UTC
Hi al , My research is based on 40 years of being a researcher and collator to a private Military Museum . It has over 20 original smocks in the collection including the rare American Cammo version made in the UK for the US Rangers .
There are 4 British Para smocks and one Royal marines . At a glance it is very easy to tell them apart .
Ist pattern para is in a light Khaki material no cammo . issued only at the very start .
2nd pattern isthe clasic half zip
3rd is full zip mainly officer issue but reg tailors also modified them .
4th is 2nd pattern but reversable to white , very few made.
Royal marines is the half zip but it is replaced by rubber buttons easy for cold /wet hands etc . cheers ian
There are 4 British Para smocks and one Royal marines . At a glance it is very easy to tell them apart .
Ist pattern para is in a light Khaki material no cammo . issued only at the very start .
2nd pattern isthe clasic half zip
3rd is full zip mainly officer issue but reg tailors also modified them .
4th is 2nd pattern but reversable to white , very few made.
Royal marines is the half zip but it is replaced by rubber buttons easy for cold /wet hands etc . cheers ian
Sandy
Joined: June 24, 2002
KitMaker: 628 posts
Armorama: 405 posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2010 - 06:04 AM UTC
Hi al , I forgot to add the photo is in the new publication Great Battles of WW2 exclusive to W H Smith . Bottom of page 23 . As to putties they were still on general issue and could be worn in place of anklets .
I have seen Paras wearing them as late as the Battle of the Bulge , rare I grant but still in use. In cold weather they are more comfortable than the stiff anklets . cheers ian
I have seen Paras wearing them as late as the Battle of the Bulge , rare I grant but still in use. In cold weather they are more comfortable than the stiff anklets . cheers ian
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
Armorama: 11,675 posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2010 - 06:13 AM UTC
Hi Ian,
Thanks, I'll have a look. Putties would be much preferable to anklets, I've worn both. Just hadn't see a picture of the later style smock worn at Arnhem in anything I'd come across yet.
Always exceptions to the norm.
Cheers
Al
Thanks, I'll have a look. Putties would be much preferable to anklets, I've worn both. Just hadn't see a picture of the later style smock worn at Arnhem in anything I'd come across yet.
Always exceptions to the norm.
Cheers
Al
Sandy
Joined: June 24, 2002
KitMaker: 628 posts
Armorama: 405 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 - 07:23 AM UTC
Hi all ,Ii based my remarks on the photos in the reviews , but now I i have a set for my self I can see that there are several problems with the figures ,
The ones wearing the denison jacket do not have the tail on the rear . so here is the actual measurements . base is 75 mm , length is 300 mm and width at the top is 180mm , press studs centres are 128mm and spaced 25 mm from top edge .
The bottom pockets are not properly defined .
There is no entreching tool or back packs n or officers side packs . I have yet to measure up the basic pouches but the look undersized in length and width and depth . cheers ian
The ones wearing the denison jacket do not have the tail on the rear . so here is the actual measurements . base is 75 mm , length is 300 mm and width at the top is 180mm , press studs centres are 128mm and spaced 25 mm from top edge .
The bottom pockets are not properly defined .
There is no entreching tool or back packs n or officers side packs . I have yet to measure up the basic pouches but the look undersized in length and width and depth . cheers ian
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
Armorama: 11,675 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 - 08:24 AM UTC
Hi Ian,
My money went on the Tristar kit, much more appropraite and original. I've alway liked the poses of these chaps but not only did the SAS not use the Welbike in Europe, at least Ive seen no reference for it, but it's the cheap trade off of offering a few old figures with the bike when they had a chance to do something original.
The figures sell for £5.57 the new set for £12.99. The Tristar set cost slightly more at £13.95 and you only get 2 figures one of which has 2 possible poses so there is not much in it cost wise although Tristar did get the rifle bolts on the wrong side!
DML are also doing the old Red Devels set with the Welbikes, but I never thought much of them.
Al
My money went on the Tristar kit, much more appropraite and original. I've alway liked the poses of these chaps but not only did the SAS not use the Welbike in Europe, at least Ive seen no reference for it, but it's the cheap trade off of offering a few old figures with the bike when they had a chance to do something original.
The figures sell for £5.57 the new set for £12.99. The Tristar set cost slightly more at £13.95 and you only get 2 figures one of which has 2 possible poses so there is not much in it cost wise although Tristar did get the rifle bolts on the wrong side!
DML are also doing the old Red Devels set with the Welbikes, but I never thought much of them.
Al
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