Yo Nicoals,

I have to reply on this one

Great build and story, the scratchwork is superb. Youre homemade PE, the plane, fig, base...stunning.

For me this is artistic art

Fantasic job, and don't rest to long like JBA (where is he?)

Greetz Nico

That is really well done, love the aircraft, and the groundwork is really nice to.
My only piece of criticism would be the Pilot.

Why is he there?
We can only assume he ejected before the plane splashed, as halfway through the cockpit is torn in two, which if he was still inside, would have definitely killed him outright if not thrown him out of the plane.
So if he ejected, why would he choose to walk back to the jet, then die?
I think an NVA/VCA or even Vietnamese Civilian looking over the wreckage would have been more appropriate, but each to their own!

Actually Bill I benefit from JBA's advises on questions concerning water, light etc..
JBA is currently not very far from here and busy with a 2months old toddler, but he will come back very soon with some classic JBA or so he says
Thanks a lot for all the support I got from you during this build!

Hey David (is it?) thanks for the comments. Actually that one is based on some real archive picture, I didn't included it in the blog for obvious reason, but here is a link to my own website:
http://www.cdiorama.com/index-6.html
My take is that the pilot was still in the plane when it fell on the rice-field, he was then dragged away for propaganda pictures.
There is really something not clicking about this picture, it's too "ideal" in a way, i think it was composed by a really good photographer -and also a damn cynical guy.

My take is that i preferred making him look at the sky from whence he came, that's more poetic and dignified this way.

Nic

I know that you have the benefit of the picture to prove that some event similar to what you have portrade here in your diorama actually occured !!!!!

Whether the poor pilot was in the minimal wreckage left and dragged his broken body up out of the water or was possibly carried there by the vietcong to gloat over their kill and make propoganda photos, nobody will ever really know for sure.

What is for sure is your sypathetic and dramatic interpretation of the real photo that makes a better point than the gorry real photo makes and therefore a tribute to your modeller's license.

I for one would give this model a trophy !!!! TOO DAMNED RIGHT !!!

Nigel

Yep it's David
Saw the pic you referenced, as you said its a very sadistic piece of propaganda, and im sure that individual was dead and then placed in that pose, as im sure no living person would choose the smoldering wreckage of their jet to lay on and pass away.

So my next critique/suggestion, would be to rough the pilot up a bit, as right now it looks like death by torn sleeve.
Bruise him up, bloody him up, char him up, something to show that he died from the crash, and not in his sleep after taking a nap on his downed jet.

As i said though, i do like this dio alot, the jet is really awesome, and i do like your groundwork, Vietnam can NEVER be TOO red!

Hi Nicolas, it's great to see this finally finished I certainly missed alot. It really looks fantastic now though, the ground work is superb and the colours very vivid.

I'm sorry to hear that you got insulted over on a French Forum, sometimes when we do challenging projects or those that ask questions (that maybe people dont like to ask), we sometimes get a hostile reception. I remember when I started my Chechnya Diorama based on a reference photo also I had some people say to me that modelling modern conflicts like Chechnya was innapropriate or bad taste. I can understand peoples views but as I see it sometimes we need to tackle difficult things, if we have only made people stop to consider such bitter conflicts and nothing else, then at least we have been successful.

Personally I view dioramas as memorials that we dedicate to people (on all sides), rather than glorifications of war. Spaces where we stop and think and give thanks.

What is more irresponsible, glorified propaganda style dioramas of the Allies in WW2 surging to victory, or honest and sometimes difficult scenes from a modern conflict?

Can't believe someone would actually criticise you for this diorama. Thats just small minded. I think what John said above me is absoloutely right.

Don't take heed of stupid criticism. You have a masterpiece there, simple as that.

Superbe finishing pictures Nicolas!

I watched again your guy after MIG's comments and i am of the opinion that the uniform couldn't look more wet then this. Well done!

Short remark regarding the Hyperscale thing. I wanted to register recently because i got hit's from them on my website They were obviously discusssing my dio and i was curious of course. My registration never got validated by them.

Hey, i have the whole NAM series (in german language) somewhere in my attic. Should be worth something now.

Let's wait for next work of yours then!

Cheers
Claude

Very impressive dio and especially the wreckage.

The absence of bullet holes, the pilot personal effects and other footprints leaves the death a little bit mysterious but I like it this way.

Paul

I have that NAM series aswell in English. One complete series in binders plus an incomplete series (2 missing) boxed up. I also have most of the 'Eyewitness Vietnam' series that followed.

You actually think they would be worth anything?

Some fantastic pictures and stories though.

Apologies .

Oi Karl are you referring to my comments in this thread as being small minded and "stupid criticism"? If so i was just adding my own opinion and what i thought was potentially useful constructive criticism, nothing more and nothing less, and certainly not small minded.
Although you might be referring to Nicolas' run in with Hyperscale in which case don't mind what ive just said, and i fully agree, i can't see how a very good diorama could be cause for what's essentially abuse.

I was referring to the hyperscale thing.

No worries mate.

hey Nige, thanks for your support during that time, that was really appreciated -and btw, I really like your own originality.
I really appreciate that you saw what i wanted to put in it, no glory, just a death, and a death is sad by itself, no need to push buttons further

Dave I really like your "Vietnam can never be too red", this is a brilliant sentence, and you sum up my thought on that one!
Actually about the pilot himself, I just regret not having done a ragged over coat flight jacket as I have been told pilots wore during Vietnam war, but for the body, well, I am happy to show it like he is, I didn't really wanted to add further insults and injury to a guy already dead if you see what i mean.
My bet is that the scene was sad enough without the need to add on extra gore. I didn't want people to focus on this, I wanted the people to focus on just that: a dead pilot -not very fresh because nobody would look very fresh if an oil container exploded behind a back, but yet still recognisable.
I think a good diorama is one where there is a good balance between gloss->matt dark->highlights, emotion ->coldness thanks for your kind words!

Thanks also Jon for all this support during the SBS. I wholefully agree with you about your vision of things. Only one week ago, i fell on that picture you probably used as abase for your former diorama and thought of you ->it's the one with the armchair ion the roads is it? i thought it was brilliant, and I wished you finish this dio one day eh?
I would do Chechnya, no problem, a Chechnya dio is certainly in my cardboards..

Thank you Karl. It was only weird that talking with JBA who told me he tracked countless of forum discussions where there were either praising or slagging him off, he only had respect from everybody. Such a shame that it must come from a French forum, there's really something rotten when it comes to model making in the kingdom of the Francs.

thanks for telling Claude for Hyperscale, yet as I have some doubts and am still a bit angry because of this, i keep my signing like it is
Funny thing, a guy posted the link of my dio there
i also have the nam series in French and English, it was really very well done I thought. I liked their way of not eluding anything, also presenting war on Vietnamese side etc..

Well Paul, there are some footprints on the earth path but none on the water soil -because basically the water is not see through enough, no bullet holes indeed the way I see it and from what i read, a SAM probably hit the engine, the fuel container exploded, as it is situated directly behind the pilot seat the plane cut at that place and fell down like that. Pilot personal effects would have been stolen, or more likely would not having been sculpted because I am just *so* lazy

Nicolas, i totally understand what you feel about portraying death in a diorama, and how graphic you are comfortable portraying said theme. Moderation can work well to show the story without losing focus with a bloodied and battered corpse.

Karl, deeeeeead-onnnnnn!

Hi Nicolas, well my Chechnya Dio is still a work in progress, I've done some more since my last post, but the accident I had where it fell off the table and smashed really knocked back to progress, and it's sort of taken a back shelf at the moment. I felt like I had to start something fresh to motivate me and pick me up a bit. When I get back to London though I do plan to really crack into it and finally finish it off.

Thanks Dave, really nice to have you there commenting

Jon, for me the idea you got for this picture wasn't necesserary worth using a tank and a big building, a diorama the size of this one would be enough
why does it ALWAYS need a tank uh? take the best of your accident and perhaps rebuild the scene a minima.

My diorama is currently being discused at Hyperscale


http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1275918498/Amazing+diorama...
of course I can't answer but I don't need to as I thought the convesration si absolutely *great*, there is one person who worked at recovering MIA pilots in Vietnam participating, a whole discussion about bad taste, art etc, so I would urge anybody liking this dio or at least thinking it is an interesting attempt to have a look because if that dio provokes such controversy and such quality comments, then i am very glad I did it indeed

[edit] there is one guy that says " the real F-105 in the photo was clearly in SEA camouflage, but modeled in NMF pretty much solely to get the words "U.S. Air Force" onto the diorama",
the answer is no, no, no as I intended to not put any markings as you may remember from the SBS as I couldn't find any suitable decals at first. the reason i used silver is because IT LOOKS GOOD!!

Thats an interesting thought, and I know you and JB are very much into minimal scenes like the womb , but for me personally I felt that the scene needed a building to put it in context. With just a dinner table and some soldier how can you show the absurdity of this situation? Soldiers sitting down for tea with a fine table cloth in the middle of a ruined city?

And theres a Tank becuase there is one in the background of the photo... yes that maybe a rather weak excuse!

Nic

I have got to congratulate you yet again. Not for the STUNNING dio this time, but for the ability to stir up such a wide and varied interpretation of your STUNNING dio along with the level of controversy it raised within the site below

http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1275918498/Amazing+diorama...

Feelings and emotions seemed to be poles apart along with some mixed emotions regarding taste and decency which I must make my feelings know right here and now.

I think that this diorama is creative, emotive, clever, technically detailed, artful, sensitive, respectful to the dead and the living whilst reflecting the true realities of war.

Anybody who chooses to make this dio a statement of race, creed or politics or chooses to criticise the model on taste or accuracy of the detailing of figure, aircraft, events real or implied, is in my mind petty and should take a step back from their keyboard.

THIS IS A MODEL

THIS IS A REPRESENTATION INSPIRED BY LIFE (AND DEATH) ITSELF !

It is in my mind a form of art because art is inspired by life .

All the very best and looking forward to your next controvercial work of ART !!

Nige

Nicolas I have been following this for a wile! Also I have seen the comments of people not liking your diorama. I love modelling the Vietnam war and I must say your diorama is very gripping and extremely well done! You should be proud of it you have told the story well I like the message and what you have portrayed this may not be to everyone's taste but it certainly is to mine!

regards.

Jaymes.

Nige i don't think constructive critisicm/feedback/suggestions or imputs of personal opinion, in my case my comments on the figure, warrant me or anyone else to "take a step back" from our keyboards.

The Hyperscale discussion went a bit mental, however here comments such as my own regarding the figure, are being said directly to the artist in a positive and constructive manner, along with praise of the things i really did like about it.

Since when was Armorama or the Diorama forum a place that did not welcome suggestions and opinions?
Agree with you on the Race/Political side though.

Hi Dave

Forgive me for maybe accidentally labelling you in with some of the more scathing criticisms of the hyperscale thread. Not quite the message I was trying to get over. Since there was not the intence level of diverce comments here, it was not really targeted at this thread.

I was trying to get past all the highbrow, holier than thow LECTURING and attitudes that some people take to discussing blood and guts in models on what to all intence purposes is a fairly innocuous diorama of a single dead figure with nought in the way of gore.

Some modellers are crying out to figure manufacturers for figures of the dead and wounded.

This dio is a snapshot in someones mind reflecting on an immage taken from a book. It invoked some thoughts in my head but deserved praise for the way it was presented in my humble opinion.

Cheers Dave

Have a drink on me and look forward to your views again.

Nige

Nige your not wrong there.

At the end of the day this is indeed a snapshot of the vision Nicolas had in mind for this scene and the way he wanted it to appear, we can all, including myself, throw in the old "you should have done this and that.." but at the end of the day, if we wanna see it done so differently, we can all go out and build our own the way we want

I am just glad that Armorama remains for the most part a very positive and friendly environment where we are able to give honest feedback and praise where due, without the civil wars other forums constantly ignite over models

(Unrelated) Nige i'm bouncing over to Scotland for at least a week on wednesday, will have more than a few drinks then!

WOW, that is amazing

thanks for your comment Juan! I think that the 2 best anti-war statements are both Goya's Horrors of war and Picasso's Guernica (both Spanish when you think of it). i think that if Goya was of the XXIst century he would probably use a more allegoric way of displaying the same thing.

Jon.. and because you *love* modelling tanks Follow your own path man, and I shall be there to say you what I think (firm but sincere aha!!)

Thanks o thanks Nige for this really I first did that diorama to sort of exorcise that vision of a dead man I saw in a book when I was 15 and also because I have this uncanny vision of diorama making -something truly personal if you will.
Now when it happened to cause such a mess, well I can't say that i am not delighted! Now for being controversial, the choice is rather slim. Israel? not interested. Recent Afghanistan? not interested Chechnya? interested! Russian Afghanistan? interested! Irak? interested!
But then I don't think my next stuff will be that controversial except for the dead

Thank you Jaymes, happy you have been liking that one !

Hi Dave! I agree with this place being a positive environment, i wouldn't have been able to settle here otherwise


Thanks Dirk!