Hi all

I am after information on the M3 Stuart sawn off's or "Recce" vehicles, which were basically M3 Stuarts or M5a1's that had the turrets removed for use as reconnaissance vehicles by the allies.,

I know they were used during the Italian campaign but were they used earlier in North Africa, and does any body know to any real good reference material and pictures on these Vehicles or any M3 or M5 books that cover them as well?

I have a couple form a concord book but could really do with some more

many thanks in advance

Cheers

Keith

There don't appear to be many pics of these. Long time ago, Military Modeler did an article on a conversion of an M5. Verlinden made an interior/conversion set. I don't know if it's still in production, though. I think Squadron's In Action book has a couple pics, but I don't recal any in Zaloga's book on the M3/5. I'll check when I get home.

Check out Military Modeling issue 13 of 2003, there's an article by Steven Zaloga on the recce Stuart. It should have some pictures and historical background. PM me if you can't get a hold of one.

Cheers!
Stefan

Send me your e-mail and I'll send off the 4 pictures I have.

Hi Keith,

Accurate Armour do a conversion set for the AFV kit.

Al

Here's some pics of Steve's M3A3 recce Stuart V build on M-L
They were also used in NW Europe by the Canadians, Poles and Brits.
Cheers

jjumbo

thanks Gents

Email on it way via PM

@AlanL - Thanks Al I have seen the conversion kits, but it is the references I need at the moment, there just seem to be be very few.

@ John- thanks John

cheers

Keith

hi keith!
you didn't say which concord books you had,i take it 'British Armour in Italy and Sicily' is one of them?fine pics on p47,48 50 and 55,but as you say reference drawings are thin on the ground.One of the captions state that from 1943 onwards the conversions became more standardised but if anyone can find WO drawings or official guidelines it would be of great help (especially as i have 2 M3A3's and the AA conversions in the stash!)

hi Steve

that's the one, but it appears to be one of the few books with any pictures in it

cheers

Keith

hello again keith!
had a quick look through my books and found a pic of an M3A1 (not sure which production type) in 'Tanks in Camera:1940-1943' by David Fletcher.this has the turret removed and a wire 'cockpit bubble' over the open compartment.this book covers the campaign in North Africa but again no info as to the details of the conversion.so yes,these vehicles were in use but a more learned 'Stuart' expert could tell you which variant.

I've only seen post war photos of turretless M5s,used as artillery towing vehicles or ammunition limbers,but again,if anyone has any images of open top M5s during the 1939-45 period i would love to see them

Kieth,

Which version of a Stuart Recce are you looking for? M3, M3A1, M3A3 or M5A1? Makes a difference. There were very few of the first two and an awful lot of the last two.

As for service, while there might have been a couple M3/M3A1 recce's in North Africa, it was pretty rare (never seen a photo of one, but don't want to rule out the possibility) Sicily and Italy is where the practice becale very widespread. Virtually all Sturats had their turrets removed in that theatre. Recce units in NW Europe were under instructions to keep the turrets in place, so onle some support units that were not formally "recce" had the latitide to remove the turrets on their "Honeys", thinks like Arty FOOs and engineer units (who probably shouldn't have had a Stuart on their War Establishment anyway!).

If you are looking for references regarding the interiors, then you will have a bit of difficulty. That sort of phtoo is really thin on the ground. These conversions were performed at individual depots and heavy REME units in the field and were not to any single standard. Get a photo (which I know you are asking for), note which external fittings to add (like coamings around the turret ring and pintles for various MGs), match the stowage to the photo and then rip out all of the fitting in the hull other than the driver's stations, the firewall, drive shaft tunnel and tranny. You can then add back whatever interior guts seems to be a good match for the photos you have.

You'll need a No.19 set and it should probably be mounted under at least one of the visible antennas. A No.38 infantry set isn't out of character, but look for the teltale third antenna before assuming it's there. Add ammo box racks into the sponsons that match the visible MGs. Crew seats in the back weren't always present, sometimes the crew just sat on crates of food or ammo and sometimes they installed sheet metal seats with rough pads and ocassionally you see driver's seats fitted to the hull on either side of the drive shaft. The interior should be piled with personal kit of the crew with the realisation that Recce uinits frequently operated out of sight & sound of their parent units for a number of days and had to be pretty self sufficient.

HTH

Paul

There are a few belonging toThe 8th Kings Royal Irish Hussars pictured here

and two Canadian ones pictured in The Netherlands (Ede, 1945) :


HTH

Frenchy

Nice image of the Stuarts in NWE.

The turretless versions were used in Italy by Canadian Armoured Regimental Recce Troops....but they exchanged most of them for turreted M5A1s once they landed in NWE in 1945....some turretless versions were retained in the Recce Squadron & Troop Echelon as munitions carriers....I suspect that the turretless Stuarts in the image are munitions and supply carriers....especially with the amount of gear piled on the one in the foreground.

I agree. If you look closely, the first two are M3A3s and the last in the line is a turretted M5A1. M3A3s wre pretty much completely withdrawn from frontline service in late 1944 in the formal recce role. These are very likely serving a supplimentary role, like supply hauling, as opopsed to being actual "Recce" vehicles.

Good photo, though!

Paul

Can't find it but there's a fairly well known photo of two turretless "recce" Stuart V's attached to the 4th Anti-Tank Regiment of the 5th Canadian Armoured Division.
It's a late war shot of "Buckshee" and "Ch'erie" moving down a street in Eelde, Holland along with several M10 17pdr SP Achilles.
The late, lamented Quartermaster's Depot did a set of decals for the Stuarts and Achilles.
You can't tell from the photo but they could be ammo carriers or even APC's for the unit.
Cheers

jjumbo

This thread on ww2talk.com includes a few turretless Stuarts pics..
http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/weapons-technology-equipment/8169-%22honey-tank%22.html

HTH

Frenchy

http://www.armouredacorn.com/Refs-%20Thumbprints%20&%20Images/CVM/CVM%20Part%205%20(4%20AntiTankRegt).pdf

Frenchy

Thanks Frenchy, I forgot that Armoured Acorn had those markings set up as a PDF.
It's too bad that Quartermaster's Depot isn't around anymore and producing decals for Canadian vehicles.
Cheers

jjumbo

....or M113 interior placards and stencils

Frenchy