After my 2 year experience with my last project (T-19, HMC), I decided to do something a little easier or so I thought. My project is to take the Dragon M4 Mortar Carrier and convert it to the M4A1 Mortar Carrier used by the 2nd Armored Division.


To do this , I am using the "TWS M2/M2A1 Halftrack Update set", the "TWS Front Wheels for M2/M2A1 w/chains", the "Voyager Model 81mm ammunition stowage for M4 Mortar Carrier" set, the "Lion Roar WW II US M2A1 Halftrack" set, the "Eduard Floor Plate" set and the "Archer M4A1 MMC Halftrack" set.

I searched several references and the internet for photos of the actual vehicles. I will include these at the end of this post.

I began by following the Dragon instructions for the of the under carriage - Step 1. The only thing I changed was substituting the TWS front wheels with chains. In Step 2 & 3, I replaced the kit boogie housings with the TWS ones. Also I used the TWS springs.



After Step 3, I began to just work in sub assemblies so that as one sub assembly was setting up (glue, etc.) I could continue working.

The Front Crew Compartment was assembled basically straight , except that the solid Jerry Can mounts were replaced with etched brass ones, and etched brass foot pedels and some gear shifts were used.



The most extensive conversion will be done in the rear crew compartment. Here I had to remove the molded on mortar mountings from the floor. Once this was done, I used the Eduard floor plate to replace the floor plates. All seat and foot rest locators had to be filled and sanded. Once this was done, I began work on the Voyager ammunition racks. I have not worked too extesively with etched brass before and this proved to be quite a chore.



That is where I am at the moment. I will try and update once a week with new in progress photos.

These are the reference photos.




Dave

good luck with your build.
try to take photos in a better lighted environment.

Thanks Matan. I think that right now the photo problem is raw plastice with no paint. Seems to reflect the light. i will try a different light arrangement for the next set.

This week and weekend I have spent on the unique items of the M4A1. These have come from other models etc.

The first thing you will notice is that the M4A1 has the winch on the front. The parts for this are actually in the M4 kit, but are listed as excess pieces. The only thing you will need to do here is copy/refer to the M2/M2A1 instruction sheet. The M4A1 also used the detachable headlights. Again these are provided with the M4 kit, but again listed as excess.

The side stowage racks were also used on the A1 and are provided as excess parts in the M4 kit. I decided to use the etched brass ones from the Voyager M2/M2A1 set as the ones with the M4 kit have the anti-personnel mines molded on.

I noted from studying the reference photos, that the actual vehicle had the extension pedestal (see photo below) even in the rear firing version. Archer states that it must be fabricated. This is a detail that DML missed when they produced the M4. Had they provided it, you would have had less work in the conversion. As is, there is no measurement provided, so using the base mount as a guide with the reference photo I figured the pedestal would be scale wise: 9/16 X 7/16 square and 4/16 high. Also fr4om the photos, I noted that the mortar mount provided with the kit is too high, so I had to sand it down to the proper height.



You will also need to fabricate a plate for the floor to the front of the rear compartment where the pedestal was originally located. (This is shown in a later photo below)

To get the skate rail for the bipods on the M4A1 modification, I took the skate rail from a DML M2/M2A1 model that I will be making as the M2A1 version. This then has to be cut and mounted in the rear compartment. I trimmed the mounting portion of the part, so it more closely resembles the actual part. I will mount this in the compartment later.



The next part of the project was to fabricate the storage boxes for the back of the vehicle. This was done by estimating their size from the actual vehicle photos and building them from card stock. The lids on top are modified pieces from the spare parts box. I added the two additional small storage boxes, but theses were also from the spare parts box (actually from and old Tamaya M16 kit.)



I noticed yesterday after I had already assembled the Voyager etched brass ammo bins, that the actual bins were 4X4 bins instead of the 4X5 bins that the kit makes. So I disassembled the bins and cut them down to the correct configuration. Once this was completed, I mounted the bins and the Mortar pedestal mount in the rear compartment.





The rear compartment and the back have been test fitted to get an idea of how it will look when fully assembled.







This coming week, I plan to finish up the rear compartment and possibly mount the front and rear compartments to the running gear.

Dave

Dave, nice progress so far. I'll be watching this as I have similar plans for my M4.

Cheers!
Stefan

PS: Your T19 looks great by the way. Sorry I never got around to posting on that thread.

Very nice work so far. Keep up he good work!

nice progress, following with interest.

the photos are much better just a tip if your lighting is causing you problems: try and play with the white balance, or if your camera has the option (most have it, it's somewhere in the menu), choose the lighting type you have and the camera will adjust itself

Thanks for the encouragement Stefan, Thomas and Matan.

Stefan - Thanks for the comment on the T19. I had hoped that this conversion would be easier, but after I have gotten into the project, I have found that it is not as easy as the Archer information leads you to believe. But in their defense, they probably didn't realize all the inaccuracies.

Last night after posting, I assembled the side stowage racks and started trimming down the vehicle skate rail. I have included a picture of the progress on the skate rail (side racks are shown too). Note that the left side is done and the right side still needs to be done. But it does give a contrast of the before and after.



I will post more next weekend. If you have specific questions on anything I have done or from what you see in the photos, please feel free to ask.

Dave

Hi Dave,

I've been watching from the sidelines and thought I should chime in here and take some of the heat off of 'Archer' since that is my name associated with the transfer sheet.










I think the problem is more with the lack of space for detailed instructions on the small sheet that accompanies the transfer set and not the lack of knowing what needed to be done, or the kits inaccuracies. I'm also not 100% sure which inaccuracies you refer to, as that particular style of skate rail and the mortar base that comes in the Dragon kit is perfectly fine for an M4 mortar carrier, which is what that kit represents. All of the other fittings missing from the kit are standard to a later, upgraded M4A1.

When the M4 was upgraded, the mortar base was lifted onto that extension to allow the mortar to traverse on a long flat plate with holes which was located in place of the rear seats. The 2nd AD replaced that with a section of skate rail instead but that wasn't the standard fitting.







I also notice you are altering the skate rail but I'm not sure how far you intend on taking it. The skate rail that was installed on many (if not most) M4A1's was the later bolted style on open brackets, not the earlier style solid gusseted version that comes in the Dragon kit. I made one on a kit I built and it was a pain in the backside, using brass stock for the brackets and hex rod for all of the bolt heads.









I also noticed that you left out the shelves that were mounted before those exterior stowage boxes. I'm not sure if you can still remove them or if they are glued extremely well but I thought I might let you know about these. I know they are not called out on the Archer instruction sheet but again, I think that might be because of limited space. I'm assuming Woody concentrated on the stuff customized by the 2nd AD and not the standard fittings on an M4A1.










I'm sorry to hear that the instructions aren't very clear and may be a bit misleading, I'm sure that wasn't Woody's intention when he released this set. I hope my post was helpful and if there are any other issues please feel free to contact me personally via PM/email if you'd like.

Ken

This is turning out to be a great thread! I'll have to bookmark it for reference. Whenever I get to that project...

Cheers!
Stefan

Ken -

Thanks for the information. My intent was not to beat up Archer. As the instruction sheet points out, they are "Simple Kit Modifications" I think my frustration is the fact that there is a lack of reference photos on the actual vehicles and that no actual measurements exist for the added storage boxes, etc. I am greatful to the Archer people for the decals and the information provided. Without those the conversion would be much harder. But in building the model and doing this thread, I am trying to point out problems I run into. If I offended you or Archer, please accept my appology.

That said, if you have anymore reference photos, I would be appreciative of you posting them here.

And yes the skate rail is a bear. I am just trying to get it to closely resemble the actual one (I guess later version) shown in the photos of the 2nd Armored vehicle.

As I told a friend the other day, when it comes to modifying/converting models, I tend to be my own worst enemy. I have never been a person that has to have every little detail perfect, but I do try to get as accurate a model as possible.

Thanks again for your input Ken.

Dave

Dave,

I can't speak for Woody but I doubt you've offended him, he's a real nice guy and would probably listen to your input and maybe even apply it to future releases in order to improve. As far as me, no sir, not one bit. I was more concerned with me perhaps not offering Woody enough info and leaving the builder in the dark. He can only pass on what the people who work with him provide and the lack of details on the instruction sheet may lie on my shoulders and that is why I thought it my responsibility to offer to help.

A little background on this sheet, which may also explain a bit is that it was initially released with many missing details that is seen on the sheet I posted. The first release didn't include the bridging code, the gas paint around the star and some of the smaller lettering like the 'prestone' etc. After it's release I contacted Woody and showed him the additional photo and he discontinued the set and re-released the corrected one. It may have been in this confusion that some of the details were left off the sheet, I don't know. I have since helped him with four additional half track sets and if you ever decide to build any of those, I would be more than glad to hear your input so that I can avoid making similar mistakes on future sets.

As far as pictures, I will look through mine and see what I have that may be useful to you at this stage, I know there are some great photos of a standard M4A1 in an issue of Boresight taken by John Charvat, which may be useful. He did send me a CD of those photos and perhaps I can watermark them with his name and post a few? I know he posts here on occasion, perhaps he will chime in?

In the end though, it's all about having fun and as long as you are that's what matters. In fact, I told a friend who pointed this thread out to me that I wasn't going to post, just watch, because I didn't want to appear to be some rivet counting accuracy nazi and ruin your thread. I just felt I should address the instructions because it might be my fault and I feel a certain responsibility.

I like what you're doing, keep at it.

Ken

Ken and Dave, I am extremely grateful for your exchange of info and the clarification of some of the finer points of this build. An exchange which will be of enormous assistance to many fellow modelers. Well done by two, apparently, very gracious gentlemen. I applaud you both.

Tom

Dave,
Great start on the project, and I have a proposition. If you have the quad 50's available from the Tamiya M16 halftrack, I would like to buy the parts. I have a project that uses the Maxon turret and since you mentioned the boxes at the rear of the M4 were from the parts box, I figured the kit might be in parts.
Thanks.

Respectfuly,
Tom Blouch

I can also be reached at "[email protected]".

Thomas

I will check and see if I have the parts. My parts box is full of pieces from all kinds of kits. I am away from home right now, but when i get back, I will let you known.

Dave

This weekend I did a lot of small piece work, and started assembling the rear compartment.

The first things I worked on were the shelves on the rear bumpers that Ken pointed out. Thanks again Ken for the picture. It helped a lot.

Once the shelves were added, I started on the 50 cal and 30 Cal machine guns. They are a combination of kit parts and etched brass from the Voyager set. I also took a couple of pieces from and old Eduard M3/M3A1 set. As I have said previously, etched brass is not something I have worked with extensively, so this is a learning and cussing event also...LOL





Once I finished the guns, I turned my attention to finishing the skate rails (both for the vehicle and the one for the mortar mount.) I am only trying to get them to be a reasonable facsimile of the actual skate rails and not an exacte reproduction. That would take more time and skill than I have. I also fabricated the three storage boxes that are mounted to the vehicle skate rail. These are a combination of spare parts box items, brass, and sheet plastic. You can see them in the pictures below of the rear compartment.





Once all of this was done, I assembled the major pieces of the rear compartment. Once that was accomplished, I decided to dry fit the vehicle together. As it turns out this was a very wise thing to do as I found a couple of problems with the fitting of the front and rear compartments to the undercarriage. But these were easily fixed.

It seems to be coming along. I will do some more small stuff and then start the base coat of paint on the three sections of the model.













Dave

Hey, if you guys want to offend me you're going to have to try a lot harder than this

I'm glad this thread is up and moving along nicely... that's one impressive build you got going there dawg and I'll be popping in once in a while to see the progress. Any questions or whatnot you guys know where to find me. [email protected]

In the meantime I'm going to post a link on my product page to this thread because this kind of skillful model building is why we released that sheet in the first place... or rather the second place after Ken jumped in and got me set straight.

Now, go build something!

Woody Vondracek, owner
ARCHER FINE TRANSFERS

*looks at avatar

Even after all of our correspondence, I never realized you were such an attractive red head.




Dave,

this is coming along very nicely. Sorry to have not gotten back here sooner but it looks like you've managed to get those shelves in place without issue and they look great.

In between those shelves there were two very simple bent brackets to stow the base plate for firing outside the vehicle, a folding shelf would then fold down over the base plate. This shelf would be a place to set stuff down on when loading through the back door and similar. The folding shelf was also a bit lower than the two other shelves, to allow the door to open freely. Here's a picture with some notes which I hope is clear.



Keep up the great work.

Ken

Woody - Thanks for the very nice compliment. I'm glad that my build will be linked to your site. I hope it inspires others to try to convert the DML M4. BTW, one of the other kits I plan to build in the future is the M3 75mm Halftrack version used by the RANGERs in Italy. Another one of your fine decal sheets will be used for that.

Ken - Thanks for the baseplate update. I guess it's back to the workbench when I get home this weekend to fabricate that on the back as well. This is really becoming fun.

Dave

Ken,

One question....do you have a picture or know where they stored the tripods for the 30 cal & 50 cal on this vehicle? The reason I am asking is because on the M4, it seems the 30 cal tripod was strapped to left rear wall by the rear door. But with the addition of the stowage boxes, it would no longer be possible to store it there. Just wondering. Again all your help is appreciated.

Dave

Dave,

the .50 cal MG wasn't a standard fitting for an M4/M4A1 so there was no provisions made for stowing the tripod or weapon. Having said that, it doesn't mean that crews never commandeered one and mounted it, so any sort of stowage for that weapon and it's accessories would be addressed by the crew.

The .30 cal and it's accessories however were standard and the footman loops for the tripod were placed on the top surface of the right hand stowage box. These croppings from the Hunnicutt book show both empty and stowed situation.







Since I didn't replace any of the other footman loops on the kit with PE or wire, I simply glued some small pieces of stretched sprue which looked similar to the molded on footman loops found all over the kit. Of course how you do yours is entirely up to you.

HTH

Ken

Thanks Ken.

The reason I asked about the 50 cal, is because two of the three pictures of the actual vehicle show the 50 mounted on the skate rail above the driver. I guess the crew of this vehicle just "acquired" one...

I see I also need to remove the hinges I put on the back storage boxes, as the pictures show none. Ah...a project in transition.

Dave

Last night after reviewing the Hunnicutt book and the other pictures provided by Ken, I made a decision. I decided that the work I had done on the rear of the vehicle was inaccurate in size and layout. So I am going to disassemble the work and start over. This will allow me to get the baseplate mounted correctly and also allow me to resize the stowage boxes etc.

I am going to use the resizing formulas that Shep Paine provides in his Diorama book. That way I can use the 1/48 drawings in the Hunnicutt book and convert them to 1/35.

Sometimes it's just better to start over than to try and force things to fit in previously completed work.

I should have some updated photos and a progress report this weekend.

Dave

Dave,

You may be going for something more accurate and that is fine, but whatever you decide to do in the end I will say what you have already looks pretty darn good and as far as craftsmanship it appears top notch.

Dave,looks really good to me so far, too.