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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
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Sherman hull mg question...
Metal_blast
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Posted: Sunday, June 06, 2010 - 04:32 AM UTC
Hello,

I have a quick question; I swapped the kit mg for a metal barrel one; I had to cut it down, but without realizing it, it was slightly too long, and glued it

I could fix it, no doubt, but it's gonna be a pain in the arse. For instance, from most of the photos I've seen, the cooling jacket is only 5-6 holes out; mine is 6-7 holes out Does it need fixing (i.e. push the barrel further in, or does it look okay? By the way, its the Tasca M4A1 Sherman mid-production.


Here's what I mean:





Thanks for the help!
thebear
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Posted: Sunday, June 06, 2010 - 09:20 AM UTC
I know that if you hadn't said anything ,I doubt that anyone would have noticed ,so if you can live with it ,,so can I

Rick
barkingdigger
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Posted: Sunday, June 06, 2010 - 10:55 AM UTC
Alexander,

You answer your own question... The barrel sticks out a bit too far and the "scale police" would ask you to push it in a few holes further. However, it's up to you whether it bothers you enough to do it - not many folk would notice either way unless you point it out!

Tom
Metal_blast
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Posted: Sunday, June 06, 2010 - 02:36 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Alexander,

You answer your own question... The barrel sticks out a bit too far and the "scale police" would ask you to push it in a few holes further. However, it's up to you whether it bothers you enough to do it - not many folk would notice either way unless you point it out!

Tom



LOL

Yes, most would not notice the issue unless I pointed it out; but I'm just meticulous with historical accuracy I guess

Anymore opinions?

I'm thinking of cutting the barrel slightly more... ugh.......................................................................................................................
padawan_82
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Posted: Sunday, June 06, 2010 - 03:40 PM UTC
quite a dilema there Alexander personally i'd try pushing it in further rather than resorting to cutting the barrel if it were me i'd try removing the barrel filing the hole a little bigger, reposition then add a tiny dab of CA glue to affix it in place. but it's upto you mate personally i wouldn't have noticed anything amiss if you hadn't said anything but in the end it's upto you mate. Ant
Metal_blast
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Posted: Sunday, June 06, 2010 - 05:51 PM UTC

Quoted Text

quite a dilema there Alexander personally i'd try pushing it in further rather than resorting to cutting the barrel if it were me i'd try removing the barrel filing the hole a little bigger, reposition then add a tiny dab of CA glue to affix it in place. but it's upto you mate personally i wouldn't have noticed anything amiss if you hadn't said anything but in the end it's upto you mate. Ant



Ello,

I just spent the last 2 1/2 hours taking the mg mantel off, cutting the barrel, regluing the mg mantel back on, and re-positioning it appropriately

Soo much glue inhalation after all that work.... I need some fresh air
Metal_blast
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Posted: Monday, June 07, 2010 - 03:12 AM UTC
Hello,

To all those building this kit, be warned that there is a fit issue I found; a gap between the transmission housing and the hull. It still needs fixing
padawan_82
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Posted: Monday, June 07, 2010 - 08:45 AM UTC
2 1/2 hours ouch...hope it worked out for you Alexander i haven't built a tasca sherman yet, but i'm glad to know about the fit of the transmission housing, if i do build one in the future this will be something to look out for thanks for the heads up, good luck with the rest of your build i'll be watching this one. Ant
retiredbee2
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Posted: Monday, June 07, 2010 - 09:15 AM UTC
Alexander.......nice that you are into authenticity, but it seems a shame that you would loose sleep over the barrel being a few scale inches too long. Life is already too short and fretting over nothing only makes it shorter... .....Al
Metal_blast
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Posted: Monday, June 07, 2010 - 12:31 PM UTC
Hello

1 1/2 hours yielded this: the housing isn't exactly leveled with the upper hull, so I had to trim down some of the hull where the hull mg is to make it a little more even. I'm still working on it More updates to come... I don't know how this is becoming a build log now



HONEYCUT
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Posted: Monday, June 07, 2010 - 09:54 PM UTC
Hey Alex
the first thing that struck me about your new photos above is how short the .30cal seesm to protrude?

Ok joking.
I didn't notice the fit of the bolted attachment strip when assembling mine, but upon looking at it just now, I guess it could have too great a gap to the glacis? Not enough for me to worry about though, as I have the power cable for the siren running across half of it
Keep us posted on your progress mate. I have rounded the bottom edge of the hull rear plate (below the engine access doors) with putty to represent the majority of welded hulls and removed the rivets, as the example you have is of a Pressed Steel M4A1 which has the rivetted hull and angled plate as oppposed to above.
Brad
CMOT
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Posted: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 - 10:17 AM UTC
Why did you cut the barrel instead of drilling a hole through the mount and then inserting the barrel to the correct depth?
Metal_blast
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Posted: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 - 11:50 AM UTC
Hello


Quoted Text

Hey Alex
the first thing that struck me about your new photos above is how short the .30cal seesm to protrude?

Ok joking.
I didn't notice the fit of the bolted attachment strip when assembling mine, but upon looking at it just now, I guess it could have too great a gap to the glacis? Not enough for me to worry about though, as I have the power cable for the siren running across half of it
Keep us posted on your progress mate. I have rounded the bottom edge of the hull rear plate (below the engine access doors) with putty to represent the majority of welded hulls and removed the rivets, as the example you have is of a Pressed Steel M4A1 which has the rivetted hull and angled plate as oppposed to above.
Brad



Yes, this sherman definitely represents the earlier riveted hull, hence a mid-production m4a1 I did a lot of research before I decided to do this build; reading Steve Zaloga's build here the only vehicle not needing extensive surgery to build out of the box was the two-tone colored Sicily campaign decal option. I'm aware that a majority of the later m4a1 had the welded hull; this is why I hesitated to pick up the late m4a1 sherman offered by tasca; I didn't want to do surgery.


Quoted Text

Why did you cut the barrel instead of drilling a hole through the mount and then inserting the barrel to the correct depth?



Great question; this is because the browning was pivoted in a ball mount, so I still wanted functionality of the hull mg, so as to move side-to-side, up-and-down. For instance, the mg mantlet would have no support so it would have to glued into the mg port.
Metal_blast
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Posted: Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 08:53 AM UTC
Hello, I'm back

Much work has been done to the Sherman.

First off, I encountered a fit issue; do not glue part G6 (head padding) onto the roof of the hatch doors; the hatches will not sit flush onto the hull. I broke off a piece on the hatch trying to take that damn thing off; that took a few hours to reshape Oh, and you have to make a grab handle on the hatch using thin wire; most PE parts were glued using Gator Glue; GREAT STUFF; holds like cyanoacrylate(super glue), but allows you to readjust the parts before it dries.




I also tried reshaping the brush guards; I did not want to purchase a PE set for this build; so I'm trying to modify some of the parts to to my liking. Still, I'm replace most of the barrels with metal ones for this build; I constructed two lengths of link-and-length tracks using the AFV club tracks last year; this build has been postponed for a while due to school.

No other fit issues were encountered; except for breaking one of the rear brush-guards and having to remould and shape it for hours, In fact placing them properly was an issue for me at least.











On a final note, the turret mantlet. I drilled out where the plastic .30 browning was, cut down the brass barrel (RB model barrel) and glued it in place. That took about 3 hours At least there was no fumes from the glue Oh, and if you notice very carefully, there is a slight gap between the cooling jacket and the mg cap Heh, not gonna fix that












Any questions, comments, concerns? Feel free to ask me.
barkingdigger
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Posted: Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 12:04 PM UTC
Hi - nice work so far! My only comment is the grouser storage covers (those scoop-things at the rear corners of the hull) should be swapped left-right. The tops should be level, rather than slanting down to the outside like yours...

Of course, they were removable, so could be installed the wrong way round!

Regards,

Tom
Metal_blast
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Posted: Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 12:16 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi - nice work so far! My only comment is the grouser storage covers (those scoop-things at the rear corners of the hull) should be swapped left-right. The tops should be level, rather than slanting down to the outside like yours...

Of course, they were removable, so could be installed the wrong way round!

Regards,

Tom



Hey!

Thanks for the comment; I just popped them out; some minor damage, but nothing that can't be fixed!

Thanks for pointing that out; wouldn't have noticed in the instructions
barkingdigger
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Posted: Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 12:19 PM UTC
That's ok - it just shows the depths of my Sherman addiction...

Tom
Metal_blast
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Posted: Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 12:24 PM UTC

Quoted Text

That's ok - it just shows the depths of my Sherman addiction...

Tom



Hello again,

I love people that know their subjects; it really helps people like me that wouldn't notice the subtleties about a subject; you give a little, you learn a little (or take)
HONEYCUT
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Posted: Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 02:48 PM UTC
Hey Alexander
A nice clean build you have going here mate. The .30cals look beaut!
Some extra info regarding the vents. Apparently there was concern of gasoline fumes becoming trapped inside the grouser box and fear of consequent combustion, so the initial flat oval lids were replaced with the vents as you have them. Although Tom pointed out the intended positioning of them for you, I have seen photos of them the other way around and even with the mesh coverd outlet facing rearwards... (I wouldn't do this for a competition though; unless with photo evidence to prove it!)
After all, the were secured with a long bolt through the top (as you can see in the tops of the kit vents) which would actually be visible through the mesh, running vertically through the centre of the hole.
Keep up the progress!
Brad
KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 03:15 PM UTC

Quoted Text

.


Quoted Text

Why did you cut the barrel instead of drilling a hole through the mount and then inserting the barrel to the correct depth?



Great question; this is because the browning was pivoted in a ball mount, so I still wanted functionality of the hull mg, so as to move side-to-side, up-and-down. For instance, the mg mantlet would have no support so it would have to glued into the mg port.



I don't follow this If you just drilled through the ball along the original plastic MG's axis (into the breech if needed) you could adjust the length of the gun by sliding the barrel in and out as needed. Once cemented in place it would behave just like the kit part. You could do the same thing on the coax turret MG, except you would need to place it on the trunnion when you drilled and continue the hole through the square boss as well. (The MG is a tight fit on the square boss so it should drill like one piece of plastic.) Once the hole is made you could disassemble the MG from the trunnion and cement it when assembling the turret.

KL
Metal_blast
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Posted: Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 05:35 PM UTC
Hey Kurt,

I could have done what you just instructed I suppose, but that technique never occured to me when I did it
Lol that seriously did not occur to me at all; maybe next time I'll try your approach; I guess for me, cutting the barrel to fit into the mg body was the logical approach, instead of cutting the mg body from the pivoting ball mount or square boss and preserving the mg barrel For instance, for the co-axial mg, I drilled all the way to the square boss and cut the barrel to fit.





Hey Bradely,

Interesting information; I spent the last 2 hours fixing the grouser boxes; the frame broke in half at the bottom of both grouser boxes where it meets the PE mesh screen. I subsequently took the PE mesh off, glued and sanded until the frame was flush and re-glued the PE msh back on They look good now though; I hope


It appears that I been breaking a lot of the parts on this build; no thanks to the fragile parts =/
HONEYCUT
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Posted: Monday, June 14, 2010 - 12:30 AM UTC
I wouldn't sweat it on the appearance of the mesh Alexander. They would get battered about at times I'm sure.
I hear you on the brittleness of the Tasca plastic. It is fine for the most part but for some of the parts, and as you found out with 'relocation' it can be troublesome...
Oh, there are a couple of drainage holes you can add. Look along the rear deck towards the turret rear. The outside edges of the two hinges attached to the deck engine door will line you up with where a drain hole should be drilled at deck level into the splash guard surrounding the armoured air intake. This will be a two holes driled, each measuring approximately 3-4 mm from the outside edge of that armoured guard.
Brad
KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Monday, June 14, 2010 - 04:04 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hey Kurt,

I could have done what you just instructed I suppose, but that technique never occured to me when I did it
Lol that seriously did not occur to me at all; maybe next time I'll try your approach; I guess for me, cutting the barrel to fit into the mg body was the logical approach, instead of cutting the mg body from the pivoting ball mount or square boss and preserving the mg barrel For instance, for the co-axial mg, I drilled all the way to the square boss and cut the barrel to fit.




That's probably because you are better modeler than I am. Over the years I have broken off many parts like MG barrels so I've become adept at reattaching/replacing parts. You figure these these things out once you've done them a dozen times or so!

KL
Metal_blast
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Posted: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 - 08:05 PM UTC
HEllo

Been working on my m4a1, but did not feel like posting any updates.

You will see I used a lionroar metal barrel for the .50 browning; in my opinion I wouldn't have replaced the tasca one because its so fine already... ermmm... I shaved off too many rivets (had to replace some; don't look that great, but who can tell... they're so small ); had a ball of a time with the changing handle (I followed what Terry Ashley did here which by the way I do not know how he drilled it out) so I had to shape and make my own... wow that was a lot of fumes from tamiya cement... Overall one too many accidents on the browning royally set me back like 10 hours of work... let's just say

Also, I used Formation resins Sherman pioneer tools; I personally would not use them again. This is strictly because the size of the tools differ too much from some of the kit tools; and the fact that the tie down straps are not placed in the proper position. For instance, when you look at reference photos of the tool arrangement on a sherman and try to place the Formation ones accordingly; the tie down straps are not properly placed.

The photos will explain for themselves; but what do you think of the camo scheme? I just finished it a few minutes ago. I would love some feedback on the cemo scheme because when I was following the one on the tasca instructions and box illustrations the 3 view drawings did not match up; so I used artistic license.































Dangeroo
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Posted: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 - 08:24 PM UTC
The camo looks great, Alexander. And so does the rest of course. I have an M4A1 DV planned and you certainly inspire me to start it.

Cheers!
Stefan
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