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Grille, Bison - which is which?
pigsty
Joined: January 16, 2007
KitMaker: 1,226 posts
Armorama: 451 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - 12:51 AM UTC
Utterly trivial unimportant question time. Which German SPGs were Grilles, and which were Bisons? I ask because I've just picked up a very old Kirin kit and, while the box says it's a Grille, many gallery builds call it a Bison. That led to a bit more research into this and other SPGs, plus my old Boy's Book of Big German Wastes of Effort, and now I'm thoroughly confused.
barkingdigger
Associate Editor
#013
Joined: June 20, 2008
KitMaker: 3,981 posts
Armorama: 3,403 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - 02:07 AM UTC
Sean,
According to wackypedia the Grille was a 15cm gun mounted in an open-top structure at the back of a Czech Pz 38(T) chassis. According to achtungpanzer.com the Bison was the same gun mounted in the middle of a modified PzII hull.
Hope this helps!
Tom
According to wackypedia the Grille was a 15cm gun mounted in an open-top structure at the back of a Czech Pz 38(T) chassis. According to achtungpanzer.com the Bison was the same gun mounted in the middle of a modified PzII hull.
Hope this helps!
Tom
Tankleader
Joined: April 29, 2003
KitMaker: 718 posts
Armorama: 684 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - 02:13 AM UTC
Hello All,
According to Pedia, answer pasted below it's some sort of cooking device.
A grille or grill (French word from Latin craticula, small grill) is an opening of several slits side by side in a wall or metal sheet or other barrier, usually to let air or water enter and/or leave but keep larger objects including people and animals in or out.
Tanks
Andy
According to Pedia, answer pasted below it's some sort of cooking device.
A grille or grill (French word from Latin craticula, small grill) is an opening of several slits side by side in a wall or metal sheet or other barrier, usually to let air or water enter and/or leave but keep larger objects including people and animals in or out.
Tanks Andy
pigsty
Joined: January 16, 2007
KitMaker: 1,226 posts
Armorama: 451 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - 03:56 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Sean,
According to wackypedia the Grille was a 15cm gun mounted in an open-top structure at the back of a Czech Pz 38(T) chassis. According to achtungpanzer.com the Bison was the same gun mounted in the middle of a modified PzII hull.
Hope this helps!
Tom
Well, that's what I thought too. But so far I have:
sIG 33 on Pz Kpfw I = Bison
sIG 33 on Pz Kpfw II (lengthened) = Bison
sIG 33 on Pz Kpfw 38(t) Ausf.H (mid-mounted gun) = Bison and Grille
sIG 33 on Pz Kpfw 38(t) Ausf.M (rear-mounted gun) = Bison and Grille
sIG 33 on Pz Kpfw III = Bison
K17 on Pz Kpfw VI (lengthened) = Grille 17
I'm guessing this means the 38(t) variants ought to be Grilles, but then why change when everything else that mounts the sIG 33 is a Bison ... ? Is it because they're later and the Grille (locust) matches the insect theme of Wespe (wasp), Hummel (bumblebee) and Hornisse (hornet)?
Andy - stop being silly.
Self-Propelled
Joined: April 01, 2009
KitMaker: 252 posts
Armorama: 229 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - 08:18 AM UTC
Grille is the 15cm sIG mounted on either the Ausf.H or M version of Pz.Kpfw.38(t) chassis.
Bison is a term which was never used during the war and was coined by someone doing research on the sIG conversions. It's a mistake. I can't remember who it was, sorry. Someone else can probably clear things up.
Bison is a term which was never used during the war and was coined by someone doing research on the sIG conversions. It's a mistake. I can't remember who it was, sorry. Someone else can probably clear things up.
BWP
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 20 posts
Armorama: 16 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 07:29 PM UTC
Quoted Text
sIG 33 on Pz Kpfw I = Bison
The Germans never assigned a name to the sIG 33 auf PzKpfw I ... it was, officially, sIG 33 auf PzKpfw I.
See: http://www.panzertracts.com/PZanswers.htm
lukiftian
Joined: March 12, 2010
KitMaker: 791 posts
Armorama: 592 posts
Posted: Friday, June 25, 2010 - 06:42 AM UTC
sIG 33 on Pz Kpfw III = Bison
Not really. A better designation would be Sturmpanzer III or Stupa. This vehicle was close-topped and was the precursor to the Brummbar
Not really. A better designation would be Sturmpanzer III or Stupa. This vehicle was close-topped and was the precursor to the Brummbar
RotorHead67
Joined: May 07, 2003
KitMaker: 1,174 posts
Armorama: 772 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 04:17 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextSean,
According to wackypedia the Grille was a 15cm gun mounted in an open-top structure at the back of a Czech Pz 38(T) chassis. According to achtungpanzer.com the Bison was the same gun mounted in the middle of a modified PzII hull.
Hope this helps!
Tom
Well, that's what I thought too. But so far I have:
sIG 33 on Pz Kpfw I = Bison
sIG 33 on Pz Kpfw II (lengthened) = Bison
sIG 33 on Pz Kpfw 38(t) Ausf.H (mid-mounted gun) = Bison and Grille
sIG 33 on Pz Kpfw 38(t) Ausf.M (rear-mounted gun) = Bison and Grille
sIG 33 on Pz Kpfw III = Bison
K17 on Pz Kpfw VI (lengthened) = Grille 17
I'm guessing this means the 38(t) variants ought to be Grilles, but then why change when everything else that mounts the sIG 33 is a Bison ... ? Is it because they're later and the Grille (locust) matches the insect theme of Wespe (wasp), Hummel (bumblebee) and Hornisse (hornet)?
Andy - stop being silly.
These designations are more accurate, but the Bison was coined to the early Pnz II and early 38t chassis'
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