I have the Accurate Armour Panther "Smalturm" and from what research i have been able to do so far. It would seem the Panther F was based on a late Panther "G" chassis, with the steel wheels.

The basic difference between the Panter "G" and the Panther "F" was the turret. Can anyone confirm this for me?

My info comes from Walter J Spielberger's "Panther and it's Varients".

Also in the "AA" kit they state that the 88mm KWK L71 gun would not fit in a "Smalturm". Can anyone confirm this? Again fron the Spielberger book it says that there were plans to use the 88mm gun in the Panther 2, and one mock up of this turret containing the 88 was made.

So who is right?

Later
Hawkeye

Hi. Here's what I found in answer to your questions. There were some very minor differences in the chassis. Things like the cover plate for the hull being increased from 12mm to 25mm. The spherical mounting in the front plate for the MG34 was replaced by one for mounting the MG44. Things like that. This is from "Panzerkampfwagon Panther" by Uwe Feist and Bruce Culver.

According to another book, "German Tanks of World War II in Action" by George Forty. Part here says:

"The major change, however, was in the turret. Known as Schmalturm (small turret), the new turret was developed to be used for the Panter II/Tiger II programme and was to be capable of mounting either the new 7.5 cm KwK 44/1 gun or the 8.8 cm gun of the Tiger."

So I would guess either one would go into it. It also says that 3 of these turrets were made and shipped to the USA and UK after the war, complete with the new KwK 44/1 gun. So I would guess none ever had the 88 installed. But yet it was designed for it--at least according to the above book. Neither of these books say anything about a mock-up being created with an '88' L/71in it, which doesn't mean that there wasn't one. It's just not mentioned in these books is all.

And this doesn't mean that if you want to, you can't put one in and still be somewhat historically correct about it. As the total Pather F vehicle didn't see action anyway. From what I've read a couple or so of the F series chassis were used with G turrets on them.

Take care, sgirty

Thanks for that Sgirty, that pretty much agrees with what i already have. Didn't know that there were three turrets made. I had heard there was only the one that they have at Bovington.

Later
Hawkeye

The Schmallturn was not designed for the Panther II. A concept for a redesigned turret was proposed for the Panther II, but the PII was cancelled in May, 1943. The Schmallturm was designed in 1944 for upgrading the Panther Ausf G, but it was decided that such a change required a new designation so the Ausf. F was born. The Ausf. F had a different turret race diameter than the Ausf. G; therefore one Ausf. turret would not fit the other Ausf. So it's doubtful that the Ausf. F ever saw combat with no turret. to use

The problem of the 8.8 recoil was never fully solved so the 8.8cm Schmallturm just remained a tantasy beyond a plywood mockup.

PH

Hey Paul,in the book i mentioned there is a picture of a Panther G chassis with a ""Schmallturm . It is not a mock up either but an actual working turret and gun. Where did you get your info from? What are your sources? I would be interested to read them.

Later
Hawkeye