Gday guys im hoping you can help me. I am a long time german armour modeller but im broadening my horizion's and have decided to dabble in abit of Isreali armour. I have currently in my collection both of AFV's shot and shot kal Centurions, kit numbers 35139 and 35124 and am really impresd with them . I am wondering what i need to do to another centurion kit to make the earlier Centurions that Isreal used during the 67 conflict that i have read about. I am also looking at purchasing the two kits from dragon kit number 3528 which is the m50 super sherman and the kit 3539 (premium editon) m51 isherman. Can any one give me feed back on the earlier kit 3528 and what can i do to bring it up to modern standards eg kit bash one of the newer sherman kits (which one) to update the kit. I apoligise for my ignorance Shermans are kind of new to me but im open to learning. Thanks in advance Steve

Theres a site called IDF Modelling its got plenty of reference on their equipment also a good colour chart for those hard to match colours they use sorry I cant give you a link but Im not sure how y to do them.hope this helps

Direct link to the IDF Modelling homepage
Sorry can´t help either. Not really my interest area.

Hi,
I'm looking at the kits right now.

3528 M50Super Sherman allows a M50 build only

3529 M51 Isherman allows an M50 or M51 build

3539 M51 Isherman (Premium) allows an M51 build only

It appears the trade-off is the PE,aluminum barrell etc in the Premium 3539 kit against the M50 parts in the standard 3529 kits.

Opinion= the indie tracks suck,the DS tracks much better. All of the kits have extra parts for the parts box. Builds into a decent model easily and pretty accurate. Can be found at swap meets $20-25 USD

The Cent is much the same swapping parts from the family of kits will allow most any version to be built. I was looking at the AF-35-122 Mk 5/2 and it looks like a good candidate for the earlier version.This is where good references come in handy,as was suggested earlier.Understand I'm not alluding to British/Australian cause I know little to nothing of them. Centurions of the IDF is worth every penny if you want good references, however it (vol 3,the only volume) is for the later up-engined etc versions. Any numbers of AM companys make conversions,turrets etc.

Be advised AEF is slow & spotty on quality. I have given them this opinion personally along with a fair amount of money (50+ kits) over the years.Not trying to start a flap just expressing my opinion

If you can find a group of pics of one tank, use them. It will keep nitpickers off your back and help the judges at contests to assess your model more easily.

Hope this helps
Jake

Thanks for the replys guys. Frank thank you for the link appreciated it opens a few doors for me. John Stanford thanks for the information on the kits greatly appreciated i was aware the 3529 kit could make both the m50 and the m51 i might look into that abit more as i kow where one is near my hobby shop and hasnt sold for over 6yrs so if thats the case it will save getting it from the net......... Pleas keep the information coming guys

I don't know if the link works, but here there's what I've done on mine '67 Shot under the supervison of the forum expert
http://idf-in-scale.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1510
Lucio

Thank you for the link appreciated that site will come in handy. I am becoming a little confused with the sherman issue though i have noticed two different styles of hulls on the m50 version so im guessing there was two hulled versions with the same gun. I havent seen the same for the m51 but assume that also occurred. As for the centurion im thinking i need to acquire the AFV nato version to make a standard IDF mark 5 centurrion. As for the mark 3 it looks like the tamiya kit is the only one available for that IDF version

john stanwood having a look at the kit parts for the kit 3529 what parts are used to make a m50 super sherman instaed of the m51 isherman. I know there are two turrets in te kit etc im guessing all of the parts in blue that they say are not or use are the ones for the m50 version

John sorry to ask do you have the instructions for the kit 3528 if so could you please email them to me

Hi,
Give me few days,my wife is ill and we'll get it done witha better answer & email
Jake

No worries at all mate and hope your wife gets better thank you for the answers appreciated

To my knowledge 1 tank of either type can be built from this kit.

As for as the upper hull issue, it is my understanding that due to available tanks at the time, with thoughts of standardization that M-50s would all be welded upper hulls and M-51s would be cast hulls(maybe as there is supposed to photos of some being the opposite). Most of these tanks can from scrap yards in France,Italy and Yugoslavia. Vlasko Barbic(by memory now so be gentle) Steve Zaloga & Tom Gannon have all written articles and books about these vehicles and are way better than my old memory. Gannons book is considered by many to be the definitive Israeli Sherman book. If you have a lot of interest in these tanks get a copy.Feebay,Amazon & good booksellers will have them,then you can't go wrong.

As Easy_Co stated the IDF modeling site has lots of info. BE ADVISED !!! IDF stuff can be addicting. Hope this helps.
Jake

Here is my 2 cents. I built the Dragon M-51 Sherman (premium) kit 2 years ago. It is the best of this variant, but it does need some help. I added pe from Eduard for the stowage boxes and other missing details on the tank. You should talk with Rob Ervin at Formations for tools and tow pintles. I also used the Israeli detail set from TWS. If you want to make a M-50 get the Formations M-50 turret conversion set and a good base hull, like Tasca. The IDF colors are easy to deal with. Look a Lifecolor. They have both an early and later color.They are very accuratre. If you go for the Shot KAl Centurion, the AFV Club is an excellent kit. There is very little to correct. The opnly thing is the lack of a covered mantle. But check out Mouse Hause. The have a resin piece for around $15.00 I did hear about the IDF stowage from AEF, but I have not ordered one yet.
Good luck
Joe Bevans
Los Angeles

Joseph thank you for the reply i have looked at the modelling peices you have mentioned and well on my way to ordering them thanks for confirming that i am on the right path.

John thank you for the reply and yes your right i have seen different hulls for either version. I have contacted Robert Manasherob in regards to obtaining his books and i have gotten in contact with my book supplier to see if i can obatin Gannons book as well....... i agree this IDF stuff is addictive i havent stopped researching hehehe

Hi,
Welcome to the club!

Along with JoeBev I agree about Lifecolor. Good stuff. But difficult to find in the states.

Another alterative here in the states is DOA. I like it even more than Lifecolor and it's easier to get here. It's acrylic,does't need thinning and has the two best IDF colors I've used, And no I have no deals with this fellow,other than he is extremely customer oriented and has a great product. I believe there were some reviews done here.

I do mostly OOB with an occasional foray into PE and resin. With the eyes starting to go I leave the serious super detailing to the younger guy/gals with 20/20 vision. I have always admired folks that cross the Ts and dot the Is. These days I try to satisfy me with whatever detailing I do. I've always felt there is room enough for all of us in this hobby.

Jake

Hi Stephen! Don't want to muddy the waters too much,just offering alternate choices here! I built the Academy M51 Sherman and found it fairly easy to build,scratch-wise into any of the four 'batches' of M51's that the IDF used.(pls see pics in my gallery here and and ask Q's as you please).
The M50 was also kitted in 1/35 by Armor Brigade Models(?) and is very decent to accuracy,but harder to find on the secondary market(evil Bay et-al). I have one in my stash pile somewhere but it doesn't appear to be in the 'handy' reach area.
Just thought I'd throw that out there for you!
Cheers!
Rick

Thanks for the welcome guys. I am a bit of a nut and bolt counter (come from building to many tiger one tanks i think) so im hoping for accuracy on some of my models. I have decied to do a colection of the shermans used by the IDF mainly focusing on the m4 vairents including the m50 and the m51. T he research part so far has been exhuasting but great fun.

John i have a geat supplier of Life colour paints here in Aus and will be going to him for the paints for my models thanks for the information on there accuracy

Rickthanks for the rv on the Academy m51. I havent really looked at them to be honest as i tend to stear towards Dragon kits but i will have alook at them. Thank you for the referal on the m50 kit company you mentioned i havent heard of them so im off to do a search for the company.

Thanks again guys i have been building tigers for over 20 yrs now so please forgive my novice skills etc when it comes to IDF equipment

Hey Rick,
I'm thinking the M-50 is resin? Really not familiar with this kit.

I'm looking at a injection plastic M-50 version by MP Models circa late 70's. MP did some conversion hulls and E8 suspension that was okay for the time,but lacking in the accuracy dept,ie road wheels were too narrow by half,tracks were a nightmare. The upper hull & turret weren't too bad,especially when they were pretty much the only game in town. I got a couple for $15 ea. last year.

Mr.Verlinden did a M-51 in resin that you either loved or hated. Can be found in the $50-100 range.

I'm not trying to steal your thread,but I hope this info helps

Jake

John not a drama please post all comments on kits etc any time you like. Being a novice to sherman tanks i need all the help i can to decide which is the best kit out there. I posted a thread titled Sherman clarification please in which i had listed a heap of dragon kits that i though could be used to make varients of the IDF could somemone have a look at the thread and tell me if i am way off please

Many more than two hulls were used. Israel acquired Shermans and Sherman components from salvage dealers all over Europe, and M50's were constructed using almost every Sherman variant, including the composite hull. Existing kits use the M4A4 stretched hull type, which was a common variant. There was great deal of mixing and matching of components, since the vehicles were completely remanufactured, so an M4A4 that was delivered with a three-piece transmission cover might end up with a sharp nosed, one-piece casting instead, for instance. Israeli modifications were changed over the years, as engine types were changed, and engine deck arrangements were altered to suit. Tom Gannon's book is a good introduction.

I don't know how concerned you are with accuracy but none of the available plastic kits of the M50 or M51 are really good at getting the turrets right. The Formations M50 turret is the closest aftermarket version and Accurate Armour make a good detail set that corrects some of the bad parts of the M51, including the muzzle brake which is out of scale in all versions of both the Academy and Dragon kits. I also like the Blast resin IDF Tank Accessories a lot.

AFV Club has a kit - 35159 - that is a basic 67' Shot out of the box. It can be built either with a 20lbr or an as an upgunned 105mm tank.

Get the Manasherob and Gannon books. They are both a wealth of info

Paul thank you for the information appreciated i have looked at the books mentioned and plan on adding them to my collection. I have looked at the formations m50 turret and when funds permit will be getting two of them i think. I also have two sets of the Accurate armour detail sets comng as well just waiting for them to arrive. Who does a really good m51 turret does any one know?

As for the centurions i have the new releasde kit without the 20 pounder barrel unfortunately but have managed to track down the AFV barrel etc

Please keep the inormation coming

In regards to the centurion kits i have manged to obtain the mk5 w/dozer kit 35106 as its the only one with a 20 pounder barrel. The kit is very similar to them IDF Shot Kal 35159. I know the kits are similar in moulding etc just some minor details need to be changed to make a IDF version centurion with a 20 pounder is this correct guys

Stephen- There are 2 IDF centurion kits by AFV Club. The 67' with the 20pdr. barrel and the 73' with the 105mm and all the conversion upgrades( engine deck,hull extension,stowage boxes....). I used the Dragon M51 Premium kit as my base and added detail and corrections as needed. The turret was good overall. Be careful with the front fenders and the transmission housing. I would talk to Rob at Formations and how best to deal with them.
Joe Bevans

Joe i have both the AFV centurion kits numbers 35124 which is the 73 version Shot kal version with a 105 mm barrel and fume extractor and 35159 which is the 67 early version Shot centurion with a ?105mm barrel and fume extractor. Now neither of these two kits have another barrel in the kit and they are both the same when looking at them. I bought the centurion with the dozer blade 35106 as it had the 20 pounder barrel. It is definately different (the barrel) to the other two kits hence hy i bough it to model the mk5 centurion with 20pounder barrel in IDF service please correct me if am wrong