Hi, so I've run into yet another riddle when building my US army DD sherman....
I'm stuck as I can't find a source that confirms what type of turret the american M4A1 DDs used. It seems it was either a late low-bustle turret or an early high-bustle?
Can't get any further on my build until I figure this out so if anyone could help it would be very apriciated indeed!
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Posted: Monday, August 09, 2010 - 12:19 AM UTC
Posted: Monday, August 09, 2010 - 03:37 AM UTC
I have pictures of the Sherman DD at Bovington if that is of any help, as for the specifics of the turret I don't know enough about it.
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Posted: Monday, August 09, 2010 - 06:18 AM UTC
Hi Darren, I think the DD at Bovington is a brittish version? I'm making the US version and they were unfortunately pretty different.. Thank you anyway
thebear
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Posted: Monday, August 09, 2010 - 10:20 AM UTC
Hi Cal ...This is the best picture I have ,but I'd have to say High bustle but it really is hard to tell ...
Rick
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Posted: Monday, August 09, 2010 - 09:58 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Cal ...This is the best picture I have ,but I'd have to say High bustle but it really is hard to tell ...
Rick
Hi Rick its pretty easy to tell from that pic if you know what you are looking for. It has a loaders hatch which can be seen which is good indicator of a High Bustle turret as is the pistol port combined wit hthe loaders hatch. This picture clearly shows the lower edge of the bustle which is rised confirming it is a High Bustle turret. Most US DD's tend to be High Bustle and a significant amount are Large Hatch M4A1 hulls like this one which has the later hull rear with the non indented rear overhang.
Cheers
Al
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Posted: Monday, August 09, 2010 - 10:36 PM UTC
Thanks for confirming !
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Posted: Monday, August 09, 2010 - 10:36 PM UTC
Thank you guys! This really makes it more clear to me! Now if this is an early production high-bustle turret, would it have wet storage or the old dry storage interior?!
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Posted: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 09:25 AM UTC
Probably the old interior with the hull having cast in added armor...
Rick
Rick
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Posted: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 10:10 PM UTC
I've been looking for that cast in extra armor in photos but man it's hard to see
Ok, so let me get this straight, hull with old dry storage interior and since it's a high bustle turret I'm guessing the turret has wet storage?
Sorry I'm just getting confused with all this stuff
Ok, so let me get this straight, hull with old dry storage interior and since it's a high bustle turret I'm guessing the turret has wet storage?
Sorry I'm just getting confused with all this stuff
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Posted: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 - 12:46 AM UTC
Hey Cal
No, the turret type has no real bearing on the ammunition stowage type (unless you know the combinations of turret types to specific hull ammo stowage configurations)
Be this high or low bustled turret, the relevant thing is the hull configuration. A rule of thumb would be late 47degree front (glacis) plate would indicate 'wet' stowage and for cast hulls you would look for the turret type. The upgunned 76mm T23 turrets were on the later M4a3 and M4a1 both of which were wet stowage. The discussion regarding DD M4A1s throws the rulebook out the window a little, as the 75mm gunned turret was used not only on the dry stowage (applique plated) hulls but also on the large hatch cast hulls which normally indicated the later (and therefore 'wet' stowage) version which normally would have been fitted with the T23 turret... BUT I think the DD large hatch could have been dry stowage also... Meaning I've solved nothing here
Here is a late production M4A1 75mm
You can see the subtle cast-in plates as featured in Rick's diagram, more obvious by their shadowed undercut.
Brad
No, the turret type has no real bearing on the ammunition stowage type (unless you know the combinations of turret types to specific hull ammo stowage configurations)
Be this high or low bustled turret, the relevant thing is the hull configuration. A rule of thumb would be late 47degree front (glacis) plate would indicate 'wet' stowage and for cast hulls you would look for the turret type. The upgunned 76mm T23 turrets were on the later M4a3 and M4a1 both of which were wet stowage. The discussion regarding DD M4A1s throws the rulebook out the window a little, as the 75mm gunned turret was used not only on the dry stowage (applique plated) hulls but also on the large hatch cast hulls which normally indicated the later (and therefore 'wet' stowage) version which normally would have been fitted with the T23 turret... BUT I think the DD large hatch could have been dry stowage also... Meaning I've solved nothing here
Here is a late production M4A1 75mm
You can see the subtle cast-in plates as featured in Rick's diagram, more obvious by their shadowed undercut.
Brad
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Posted: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 - 02:19 AM UTC
That's perfect Brad, thanks!
I have a resin high-bustle turret ordered and I'll use a wet storage turret interior I already have..
Thanks again
I have a resin high-bustle turret ordered and I'll use a wet storage turret interior I already have..
Thanks again