Hey guys as the ttile suggests im after some information on the m51 version that is based on the m4a3 hull. I am wondering what the engine deck and rear hul plate would have looked like as some of the pictures on this rare vehicle dont show them any help would be greatly appreciated TIA

It would look the same as any other M51. What makes you think it would be different? It would have a Batch 2, 3, or 4 style deck depending on time frame.

Stephen,

Here are a few from Verlinden's Warmachines No 4: For discussion only











Some decent shots of the rear end as well as the last one, an overall view.

Looks like an ammo box cover in the rear bin? Typical HVSS suspension units......

Hope these help, Paul

Paul thank you for the pictures

Tony the reason why i am asking is the m51 program was primarily built on the m4a1 hull with afew built on 47 deg hulls as stated by Rober Mansherob in his book Lioness and Lion of the Line . Im wondering if this version was one of the earlier m50 versions that had the 1st batch engine deck but retained the standard rear hull plate eg like the MP models m50 but had the m50 turret placed with a turret from the M51 prorgam, or did it have the rear hull plate for a batch one / two M51 as provided by Accurate Armour.

One more time.

Tony i dont appreciate the comment " one more time " i know fully well about the engine decks. It is the hull rear plate that i am interested in (if i hadnt made it clear im sorry ) as i am wondering if this was converted to either the batch 1/2/3 rear hull plate or if it was just left as it was becuase im assuming it was originally an m50 with hvss suspension converted to an m51

my 4th post
" Im wondering if this version was one of the earlier m50 versions that had the 1st batch engine deck but retained the standard rear hull plate eg like the MP models m50 but had the m50 turret placed with a turret from the M51 prorgam, or did it have the rear hull plate for a batch one / two M51 as provided by Accurate Armour. "

Morning Stephen, I too, am doing some M-50/51's. Paul's pix are great, My thanx as well. Panzerliv (?) has some nice batch engine deck variations, It's in one of the older M-50/51 threads. Worth a look if you haven't already.

Have you got a link at all phantom sounds interesting

According to your fellow Aussie John Myszka in his book 'Israeli Military Vehicles 1948-1998', the M4A3, Sherman IV, was used post 1948 with 105mm howitzer, later with M50 Mk2 with Cummins diesel engine, 75mm SA50 gun, and HVSS with 23inch T80 steel track. Later as the M51 in the 1970s with the 105mm D1504L/44 gun and Cummins and HVSS. The engine deck and hull/turret fittings would presumably be for the period to be modelled. Having just acquired this book I can really recommend it.

Hope this helps.
Mark

Mark thank you for the reply and yes it does help alot. i know the book your talking about i saw it recently at a model show thought of bying it but got distracted buy other things and put it down........ looks like a nother book i need to go and chase up thanks again

Its a great book if you can find one, buy it. They are getting to be prized like Hayward's Firefly book and (to some extent) the Sherman guide.

In reference to your question - it would indeed depend on the time period. The IDF liked the M4A3s b/c of their radiators.

I see that Cyber-Hobby / DML has a new kit out on this type of tank, you may want to check it out:
GreatModels

You could do an early M-50 based on the M4A3 hull with the cont. radial engine. You could leave the rear end alone and just swap out top decks? The French re-engined them in the 50's and Israel received some.

Chris

Captin caveman III the link doeswnt work but im assuming its for the re-issue of the dragton m50 if it is then i was told about by a fellow member on the forum and luckily have one on the way to me as i speak

ChefChris the version you talk about is the m4a4t and i have one of those in the pipeline thanks to a Formations conversion set

thanks for the help guys please keep it coming

Stephen,
I am not referring to the M4A4T, THe IDF operated the M4A3 WITH the Cont. radial engine. It looked like a normal M4A3 except it had the radial engine deck and related exhaust.

Chris

Sorry Chefchris my mistake i apoligise

Morning Stephen, The thread I was refering to is "How to build a Israeli M-51". He (panzerliv) did some great drawings. the Posted date was, May 31,2008. I think, the engine deck drawings may be of some help, of course that depends on A-type and what engines are being represented, (time frame). Michael.

Ah thanks for that im going on a search now this the best part

Sorry. I'm getting into this discussion a little late. The M4A3-based M51 is, as mentioned, simply a standard M51 arrangement on the welded hull. The main exception is that they were all done with the stowage arrangement with the spare tracks on the turret, two boxes per side and the tubular travel lock. It still requires the appropriate deck for the timeframe you're doing, and it does require the lower rear door extension. These tanks were converted from French-supplied M4A3T-based M1s with the radial deck and lower rear. There weren't many of them, so build one from a photo to get the right markings and so on.

Tom