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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Future stripping off acrylic washes?
jzumbro
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Posted: Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 07:52 AM UTC
So I put a spray paint base coat of tamiya acrylic OD green on my model. then coated with Future applied with a brush Allowed Future to set up for a day.. Then applied Vallejo acrylic + water washes over the Future. Waited 3 days, then attempted to apply a coat of future so i could later apply oil washes. However, the Future stripped off the acrylic washes I applied. Rather frustrating! What is going on? I thought Future would not do this. Furthermore, once acrylics are dry, I don't see why you can't apply acrylic washes without Future since once acrylics are dry, they are almost impossible to remove.
Question 2:Will oils washes made with odorless white spirits strip off an acrylic base coat and washes.
It seems like washes will run into recessed areas anyways, without the application of a gloss coat such as future.?
CMOT
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ARMORAMA
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Posted: Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 08:35 AM UTC
Normally you would use oil on acrylic or vice versa and then this issue would have been avoided, however I would be interested to hear why you use an acrylic and an oil wash. I do not understand why the Future/Klear removed your washes and have never heard of this issue before.

You can safely use white spirit oil washes (provided white spirit over there is the same as over here) over an acrylic base cote, and the reason for a gloss cote is to help the wash to flow rather than it attaching itself to the rough finish matt cote. By rough I do not mean your paint application as the differance between gloss and matt is how smooth the surface is.
jzumbro
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Posted: Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 12:55 PM UTC
I did not use an oil wash yet..I just used acrylic washes over top of the Future coating. The secoind Future coat tyhen stripped the acrylic washes off..
jzumbro
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Posted: Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 12:57 PM UTC
I figured I would try both kinds of washes to see how they acted. Acrylic wash first , then Future, then a an oil wash on specific areas. I understand the gloss vs matt issue for washes to flow better, but it doesn't seem like future is needed for protection.
CMOT
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ARMORAMA
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Posted: Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 01:19 PM UTC
The solvents used to thin oils will attack the base layer of acrylic paint if it is not sealed.
SSGToms
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Posted: Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 04:15 PM UTC
An acrylic wash is 80% acrylic thinner, so it will attack acrylic paint and Future. Future will not harm a cured acrylic paint job. However, it can effect an acrylic wash, since a wash is so mush weaker. People usually do Future-decals-Future to avoid silvering and protect the paint job. Putting an oil wash directly on a flat acrylic paint job won't attack it, but it will stain it darker.
CMOT
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ARMORAMA
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Posted: Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 04:32 PM UTC
Matthew are you sure about that as I have had a finish damaged by using an oil wash on an acylic base without a second acrylic barrier.
viper29_ca
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Posted: Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 05:23 PM UTC
As long as your previous coat, no matter if it is a base coat, wash, future, whatever, is CURED not just dry.....then it shouldn't matter what you put over it.

I have successfully put lacquer and enamel over acrylics, (as well as other combinations) and have never had a problem, as long as the last layer you put on was fully cured.

Not sure how Future would effect anything as it is essentially just a clear acrylic gloss, think gloss acrylic paint, but take all the color out of it. Essentially just another layer of paint in the end, just transparent and clear.
jzumbro
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Posted: Sunday, September 26, 2010 - 10:44 AM UTC
Thank you for all this valuable information!
CMOT
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ARMORAMA
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Posted: Sunday, September 26, 2010 - 01:06 PM UTC
Thank you for the clarification Scott as I stopped using the brand I had had a problem with and went back to Tamiya paint. I would have thought 4 days was long enough for a paint to cure though so I may just have been unlucky.
viper29_ca
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Posted: Sunday, September 26, 2010 - 04:06 PM UTC
Depends on the paint really. Acrylics and Lacquers are generally cured in a day or so.

Enamels...could be a week (usually left them for at least a week) or more.

Temperature and humidity have an effect, more so on enamels curing. More humidity equals a longer curing time. Of course you can speed up the curing, I know one guy that puts all of his stuff in a food dehydrator, cuts drying/curing time in half.
jzumbro
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Posted: Monday, September 27, 2010 - 04:55 AM UTC

Quoted Text

An acrylic wash is 80% acrylic thinner, so it will attack acrylic paint and Future. Future will not harm a cured acrylic paint job. However, it can effect an acrylic wash, since a wash is so mush weaker. People usually do Future-decals-Future to avoid silvering and protect the paint job. Putting an oil wash directly on a flat acrylic paint job won't attack it, but it will stain it darker.



And if you were washing with, say Vellejo or tamiya acrylics mixed with water rather than thinner, you wouldn't need a gloss coat over the base coat?
SSGToms
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Posted: Monday, September 27, 2010 - 06:16 AM UTC
Well, the gloss coat is acrylic as well, so whether it's the base coat or the gloss coat it doesn't matter. The one time, when I was a teenager, I put an acrylic wash on an acrylic paint job, it ate the paint and destroyed my paint, clear coat, and decals. So I stopped doing it.
There are lots of disaster stories posted on this forum of putting an acrylic wash (thinned with alcohol, water, thinner, airbrush cleaner) on an acrylic base (olive drab, dark yellow, clear) so if you are intent on doing it, test it first on an old model or piece of plastic.

P.S. - I just re-read your original post, and you wrote that you used Tamiya spray paint for your base (color) coat. Tamiya spray can paints are a lacquer. That's a different medium, so it won't be effected by acrylic washes.
jzumbro
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Posted: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 04:40 AM UTC
Geez, I didn't even realize that Tamiya spray paints were not acrylic. I should read the label carefully! Will oil washes with white spirits affect those laquer-based spray paints?
Would a gloss clear coat spray (like Tamiya or model masters ) work as well as Future? I could probably get a thinner coat that way since I have to brush on Future.
I will eventually get all this straight in my head.
jzumbro
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Posted: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 - 07:36 AM UTC
I let the acrylic wash dry for 1.5 weeks then tried to coat with Future again and it stripped the acrylic washes right off again. so no more Future. I applied Tamiya flat clear spray and applied oil washes, without any more stripping occurring. maybe it is an issue of spraying versus painting on the Future.
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