I am wondering if the DAK PzKpfw IV Ausf G had the additional armor or if it was still the normal armor. Specifically I am trying to do the one with the black number 7 tank.

Gilbert;

"Hey, Homie!" Nice to see another AZ guy posting! I'm a former Prescottonian (and hope to get back there).

Your DAK G question... Huh! I just recently started looking into maybe doing an F2/G DAK...

I don't have any specific answer on the added armor- but, as I understand it, the DAK did get several of the initial F2/G up-graded tanks, and some of the initial G version, as well. Which, if any, of these tanks were "added armor", I do not know. I suspect that maybe "all" G had the up-graded armor as a versional feature?

Concord Armor in Action series has two books out which show a goodly number of pics of the long-gun Pz. IV variants in Africa- look at "Armor of the Deutsches Afrika Korps" and "Panzers in North Africa" (but not sure of these exact titles) - you'll get a good sampling of the available Pz. IV and may find your specific vehicle in a photo...

I think Ian Baxter? also put out a fairly replete pictoral on Panzers of the DAK, and this book has several Pz. IV pics in it which could help reveal this question... I have this one somewhere but not in front of me so I cannot give you this title right now.

Hope this helps!

Cheers!

Bob

Thanks man, still try to locate photo's, but most show angled side and rear shots. nothing head on. Well Prescott has an IPMS gang called the Ernest Love chapter, Hobby Bench is now gone, but a Hobby Lobby in Prescott Valley. A lot larger than when I was going to school at Yavapai.

Gil;

Yeah, I recall the Hobby bench, and yes, P has swollen over the years! The PV H-L is OK- I buy supplies there when in the area.

And yeah, I actually spent a build afternoon with Ed Tharpe and his IPMS Love Chapter back in July! Fun Fun Fun!

The G....

I may be a little bit confused, here- you're not thinking that G came with any spaced armor ("vorpanzer", as in some D, E and F1 tanks), are you, when you say "added armor"? I don't think G had this at all- and not in DAK.

Or are you thinking of a bolt-on applique plate on the front?

Still, I'll paw thru some pics and see if I can find any frontals of G for you!

Cheers!

Bob

The bolt-on, like the ausf H series. My thinking is that it was too early for armor plates, but ausf d-e had armor though.

Gil;

OK- I looked around quite a bit in my various Concord and other books, and also searched the web...

Couple of things:

DAK had a small number of F2/G and a few early "production" G tanks. More the former (hence, BTW, I figure on building my F2/G for north Africa). There are various pics of these- at least one pretty-well photo'd after it was captured- even some with good frontal exposure. No DAK F2/G or G tank seems to clearly evidence any bolt-on, unlike various F1, D, and E hulls have.

There is a great preserved G in, I think, the Munster museum in Germany- and "wikipedia" will give you nice pic(s) of this tank.

If you search "Pz.Kpfw. IV ausf G" and permutes thereof, you will see this and other F2 and G tank pics.

A review of Spielberger & Feist "Panzer... IV" (1968) and the "PzKpfw in Action" book (Squadron pub 12) both yield a pretty firm depiction that 1) the F2/G was simply an up-gunned F - and featured the flat 50mm front plate of the F hull without any added bolt-on or welded-on plates, and a long gun with "ball-baffle". 2) The G hull featured the same flat front plate as the F, F2/G, but mostly had an additional 30mm plate welded onto the front plate. There are a couple of pics which seem to say some later G may have a bolt-on added plate- but this was very rare. 3) Production G hulls (as versus F hulls with up-gunned F turrets or with the slightly different G turret) came with the thinner hull-side armour to compensate for the additional frontal weight, and all G had a G turret with the longer gun with double baffle. Late G modified (simplified) the cupola hatches... And some sported schurzen- mostly on the turret and later tanks on the hull.

The D, E, and some F1 tanks had bolt-on added armour in the front and many also on the sides of the upper hull. This stuff was discontinued for the F2/G, G, H and J hulls.

I have the Dragon F2/G kit, and have read on and looked over the G kit (Kharkov)- both of which appear to be both well-reviewed and which appear to have the welded-on added thicker front hull plate- I didn't see any bolt-ons being evident- but could easily have missed something, here? Noted above: bolt-on was very rare in G, H+ hulls.

So, at this point, I would suggest you think in terms of a non-bolted front plate for your DAK! If an F2/G, it will NOT have added armour on the front or sides, and have the "ball-baffle" gun. IF early G, it will MAYBE have weld-on, or maybe no added, and it should have the double-baffle longer gun.

So, what do you think, at this point?

PS: The books noted above both have many nice frontal pics of F2/G and G tanks.

Cheers!

Bob

That is what I was looking for, the welded armor. thanks for the help. Will add the armor and a few bits of pe and will be done.