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Armor/AFV: What If?
For those who like to build hypothetical or alternate history versions of armor/AFVs.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Anyone know if there is such a E-100 kit
bige69
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Posted: Monday, October 11, 2010 - 05:26 AM UTC
I was doing some research on the net and came across this E-100 variant
The E-100 Alligator...basically a really really big Flak
I have seen photos of some completed kits but I don't know they are conversion or scratch built.
Anyone know any company that makes this conversion or if they are scratch built anyone got any plans
I think such a subject will go nicely with my "What If" / Prototype collections.
Thanks.
Tojo72
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Posted: Monday, October 11, 2010 - 06:13 AM UTC
Go to www.greatmodels.com and execute a search for E-100,they seem to have a few kits available and on sale.

I guess your talking about the German Paper Panzer ??
vonHengest
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Posted: Monday, October 11, 2010 - 06:38 AM UTC
That sounds like something that is partially scratch, but based on one of the existing kits that is floating around out there. I don't know this for certain however. Would you mind posting a picture here for us?
bige69
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Posted: Monday, October 11, 2010 - 09:55 AM UTC
I check GreatModels and HLJ quite a bit and don't seem to see them
These links have a few pictures of this particular E-100 kit
http://www.moddb.com/groups/tanks/images/e100-heavy-anti-aircraft-tank-alligator-288mm
http://www.network54.com/Forum/261325/thread/1151501345/last-1153074573/E-100+Flakpanzer+zum+lackieren+.....mal+nen+Schnellschu%DF
Some of these I am pretty sure are scratch built..but I am particular interested in the E variants
http://forum.operation-peacekeeper.com/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=11595
MLD
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Posted: Monday, October 11, 2010 - 10:09 AM UTC
Looks a lot like the CMD E-100 Flak conversion.

I have one burried in the stash if you need the item number pulled out, but if you search up CMD (Chesapeake Model Designs) and E-100 it will undoubtedly turn up.
Looks like they are oop at CMD, but there have to be sellers out there.

Mike
Grindcore
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New York, United States
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Posted: Monday, October 11, 2010 - 10:17 AM UTC
I saw 2 of the Flak Turrets at the CMD table at the CT AMPS show, he's still making them. He can be hard to get a hold of though.
bige69
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Posted: Monday, October 11, 2010 - 11:00 AM UTC
Thanks.....I will send him an email or give him a call.

BTW what is the best way to find these small resin makers who produce these unique subjects...
tankmodeler
#417
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Posted: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 05:12 AM UTC
You're doing it.

Asking is best. Going to one of the huge model shows is the next best, but hit-and-miss as well as expensive, I mean, who can afford to go to the IPMS USA Nats, The IPMS UK Nats, Trucks & Tracks, the AMPS Nats, Euromilitaire and World Model Expo to see all the best ?

Paul
Ascaria
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Wroclaw, Poland
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Posted: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 05:39 AM UTC
Hi J

just check this link :

http://www.german-master-kit.com/Shop/main_bigware_29.php?bigPfad=23&bigwareCsid=f8e31f604aa483f18f9287b53eb1f33f

or wait till Nuremberg Toy fair 2011, probably Trumpeter will announce this kit as future in 2011, or if not I will build this turret from scratch using laser cut parts & long barrels for E-75 8,8 gun from RB model, and I will have to prepare plans in 1:35, then I will prepare this as a set

Cheers

Wojtek

tankmodeler
#417
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Posted: Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 10:21 AM UTC
Y'know, I've never understood the concept behind this vehicle. Why put two 12.8 cm (or even 8.8 cm) AA guns in an armoured vehicle? That size flak gun is meant to protect from high flying strategic bombers, which almost never attacked tactical forces (the 2-3 times they did in Normandy simply do not justify this sort of effort). They should have been (and were in real life) permanently emplaced near strategic targets and supplied with the endless amounts of ammo needed to protect the target from a 45 minute long bomber stream.

If you need a mobile mounting to allow a very limited number of weapons to be shifted from target to target, then why put them in an armoured vehicle and with such a highly armoured turret? Operating in that turret & slinging 12.8 cm rounds would be brutally tiring and the ammo supply would be good for only a few minutes firing. The back of the turret isn't open to allow for mid-engagement resupply (think M-109 with the rear door open to allow rounds to be passed in for firing).

A mobile, moderately armoured flak vehicle needs nothing heavier than the 50-60mm class of weapon to keep WW II JaBos & light bombers away from the mobile formations. Actual unit mobility will protect it from any enemy bomber heavier than a light bomber/attack aircraft except as a target of opportunity and then the mounting of a heavier weapon wouldn't be able to track the faster crossing speeds of a lower altitude attacker.

Overall, it's a completely nonsensical concept. If it was actually contemplated, it was the product of a febrile imagination.

Paul
ninjrk
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Posted: Friday, October 15, 2010 - 03:27 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Y'know, I've never understood the concept behind this vehicle. Why put two 12.8 cm (or even 8.8 cm) AA guns in an armoured vehicle? That size flak gun is meant to protect from high flying strategic bombers, which almost never attacked tactical forces (the 2-3 times they did in Normandy simply do not justify this sort of effort). They should have been (and were in real life) permanently emplaced near strategic targets and supplied with the endless amounts of ammo needed to protect the target from a 45 minute long bomber stream.

If you need a mobile mounting to allow a very limited number of weapons to be shifted from target to target, then why put them in an armoured vehicle and with such a highly armoured turret? Operating in that turret & slinging 12.8 cm rounds would be brutally tiring and the ammo supply would be good for only a few minutes firing. The back of the turret isn't open to allow for mid-engagement resupply (think M-109 with the rear door open to allow rounds to be passed in for firing).

A mobile, moderately armoured flak vehicle needs nothing heavier than the 50-60mm class of weapon to keep WW II JaBos & light bombers away from the mobile formations. Actual unit mobility will protect it from any enemy bomber heavier than a light bomber/attack aircraft except as a target of opportunity and then the mounting of a heavier weapon wouldn't be able to track the faster crossing speeds of a lower altitude attacker.

Overall, it's a completely nonsensical concept. If it was actually contemplated, it was the product of a febrile imagination.

Paul



I haven't seen any actual evidence that it was ever contemplated, i think it's just a "looks cool" design thought up by the modeler making the master for the kit.

Matt
lukiftian
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Posted: Friday, October 15, 2010 - 07:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Overall, it's a completely nonsensical concept. If it was actually contemplated, it was the product of a febrile imagination



Like that doesn't happen today..... trying to win ground wars from the air.... the F-35...... other things come to mind.
vonHengest
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Posted: Friday, October 15, 2010 - 07:55 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi J

just check this link :

http://www.german-master-kit.com/Shop/main_bigware_29.php?bigPfad=23&bigwareCsid=f8e31f604aa483f18f9287b53eb1f33f

or wait till Nuremberg Toy fair 2011, probably Trumpeter will announce this kit as future in 2011, or if not I will build this turret from scratch using laser cut parts & long barrels for E-75 8,8 gun from RB model, and I will have to prepare plans in 1:35, then I will prepare this as a set

Cheers

Wojtek




Trumpeter wouldn't have to do much to put this kit in styrene form, doesn't mean we will see it though
toolman
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Posted: Friday, October 15, 2010 - 08:39 AM UTC
there is a model company in Europe that has a nice resin kit. it's kind of expensive. I built one a few years ago. I can't remember the name. I'll look for it and get back to you
toolman
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Posted: Friday, October 15, 2010 - 08:53 AM UTC
look up " new connection models" in germany
bige69
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Posted: Friday, October 15, 2010 - 01:01 PM UTC
Thanks everyone...hasn't had a chance to email the store yet...
Worry about Trumpeter ...yes....
I just saw some pics from the just opened Tokyo Hobby Show...it looks like HobbyBoss is coming out with the 2 King Tiger Portotypes (VKs) When I saw that I was so glad I didn't pickup the resin version of them a few months ago.
I would hate to see I pickup the resin turret and Trumpeter turns around and release a plastic version of it...
120mmSniper
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Posted: Friday, October 15, 2010 - 02:01 PM UTC
It's completely fictional. Don't spend 150 bucks plus shipping on a turret and gun barrel. Just get some sheet styrene and order an RB barrel. You could scratchbuild your conversion for 30 bucks or less.
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