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Armor/AFV: Braille Scale
1/72 and 1/76 Scale Armor and AFVs.
Hosted by Darren Baker
1/72 Tank carrier car with Pz.Kpfw 38(t)
Korpse
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Queensland, Australia
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Posted: Monday, November 08, 2010 - 11:33 AM UTC
Hello

here is my latest work in progress

its kit UM 259 Tank carrier car with Pz.Kpfw 38(t)



These things were used on german armoured trains such as the BP42 type, and also with heavy scout car sets (such as the UM Heavy scout car (S.Sp)). These carriers with a T-38 tank gave the train extra protection and provided mobile firepower to help the train's infantry platoons, if partisans or soviet troops were encountered. Being old tanks, these would have avoided combat with soviet armour, not being any match for T-34s.

So far I have built the carier only, still have to assemble the tank that comes with the kit.

The casting of the pieces was good, just had some round injector sink marks that need a bit of filling on some flat parts. You can see where I've started to fill and sand these in pictures below.

Fit of most parts was fairly good. The instructions were fairly good, though could have been a little clearer, particularly as there are no pins and few locator marks to ensure parts are fixed in exactly the right place.

There were no complex build issues, it took me a few minutes to work out exactly where all the parts around the hinged ramp were meant to go (as even being out by half a millimetre would not be good. I had some photos in a book (and on the web) to help to see where some parts should go.

The ramp can be placed in the up or down position. The ramps hinge but the arms that support it dont hinge very well.

A small amount of filling and sanding was needed of some hairline cracks.

I also need to work on the buffer face plates, as one needs to be a bit rounded, both are modelled flat

I don't know how accurate the underside detail is, but unless you were modelling the vehicle on its side or upside down, derailed or in a workshops I don't think it matters much. I dont know of any war time pictures of the underside.

The only part I haven't fitted (other than the tank) is the round handbrake wheel on the side. The kit one is cast as a solid disc, whereas on photos these were made of rounded steel tubing with a cross brace. I will find a suitable replacement in the spares box.

The kit decals are just basic german crosses of a couple of different types, Photos show this carrier had interesting small marks and lettering on it in painted or stencilled in white or yellow.

Next up is to build the T-38. I'll post more pics later

cheers
Neil












PanzerAlexander
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Attica, Greece / Ελλάδα
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Posted: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 - 04:43 AM UTC
I was looking at this kit a few days ago and I thought I'd recommend it to you.

I guess the train you're building will be very nice finally.

P.A.
casualmodeler
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Hame, Finland
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Posted: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 - 05:19 AM UTC
I was expecting your buildblog, Nlyall, after seeing this tank carrier car on pic yesterday on your light armored train car blog. Good to know, this kit is more trouble free than their heavy artillery armored car. As this kit is also on my "To buy" -list. I have also ordered 1/35 version from Trumpeter. Lets see, when UM releases the whole BP42 armored train.
spacewolfdad
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Posted: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 - 12:14 PM UTC
Hi Neil,

Very interesting subject, look forward to following its progress.

All the best,

Paul
Korpse
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Queensland, Australia
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Posted: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 - 07:03 PM UTC
Hi Alexander


Quoted Text

I was looking at this kit a few days ago and I thought I'd recommend it to you.

I guess the train you're building will be very nice finally



Much as I'd like to make one train, it wouldn't be realistic. I could put all the soviet stuff in a small rail yard scene perhaps,

With the german stuff, the tank carrier could go with Heavy Scout Artillery Car, as these were joined into units, but would also need Infantry and Command cars, which UM have not produced yet. They would be fairly easily made using the hull of the Heavy Scout Artillery Car, but given many kits had badly flawed sides, seems they have a problem, which is maybe why they haven't been released.

The Le.Sp (Light Scout Infantry Car) ran in sets of up to 10 identical cars and not compatible with the Heavy Scout Artillery Car, so I cant join them up, though they could be in the same scene

What I'd eally like to see are the german BP42 and BP44 armoured train cars released... guess we will have to wait and see what else UM releases.

Hi Kimmo


Quoted Text

I was expecting your buildblog, Nlyall, after seeing this tank carrier car on pic yesterday on your light armored train car blog. Good to know, this kit is more trouble free than their heavy artillery armored car. As this kit is also on my "To buy" -list. I have also ordered 1/35 version from Trumpeter. Lets see, when UM releases the whole BP42 armored train.



I'm sorry that you got a bad example of that artillery car, at least the le.sp and the tank carrier don't have any real problems. Like you I'd love to see the BP 42 cars released.

Hi Paul


Quoted Text

Very interesting subject, look forward to following its progress.




below are some progress shots on the T-38. I know from your posts on this site that you have made more than a few of these chassis, so will be nothing new for you

cheers
Neil







PanzerAlexander
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Posted: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 - 08:31 PM UTC
Hi Neil,

I like the way that you have curved the tracks of the 38t.
I remember UM tracks to be quite stiff and brittle. How did you do it?

P.S. I remember seeing a full german train model once for 100+ $. I'll look it up and post it.

P.A.
casualmodeler
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Hame, Finland
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Posted: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 - 10:53 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Neil,

I like the way that you have curved the tracks of the 38t.
I remember UM tracks to be quite stiff and brittle. How did you do it?

P.S. I remember seeing a full german train model once for 100+ $. I'll look it up and post it.

P.A.



Hi Alexander!
I think you might mean this armored train model:
1/72 armored train

Friend of mine built it in two weeks but beware, quality is far, far away from what UM offering is.. Itīs a half of the train and almost one meter long when assembled.
PanzerAlexander
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Posted: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 - 06:55 AM UTC
Yes that's the kit I was talking about, looks like the Holy grail for german train builders .

Korpse
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: October 06, 2009
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Posted: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 - 11:57 AM UTC
Hi

Alexander and Mikko

about that BP 42 armored train, I am very interested in it. Given you have to buy half a train at a time which is fairly expensive I have not wanted to risk buying it as I too have heard it may have some issues, but not sure what they are


Quoted Text

Friend of mine built it in two weeks but beware, quality is far, far away from what UM offering is.. Itīs a half of the train and almost one meter long when assembled



Mikko I have also heard that its not a perfect kit

Can you (or your friend) tell me what the problems are ? Is there poor casting of parts, missing details (like rivets), warps or bends in flat parts that shouldn't be there ? Any chance of posting some pictures ?

If the problems are minor I would buy this kit and fix them, but I'd hate to spend 100 euros or more on half a train and find the kit was bad and unfixable, and had to be assigned to the spare parts box...

cheers
Neil

warreni
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Posted: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 - 02:46 PM UTC
Imagine it in 1/35! I am slowly but surely gathering the pieces of a train together from the Trumpeter releases. Problem is it is going to be difficult to display as it will be very long!! There are more than 12 carriages for the train and a few of the cars have still to be released in 1/35, like the set you are building here Nlyall.

At least there is a fair bit of reference material you can use. I have three books on the Armoured Trains at home.

Keep up the good work as the build is progressing well!
spacewolfdad
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Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 01:21 AM UTC

Quoted Text

below are some progress shots on the T-38. I know from your posts on this site that you have made more than a few of these chassis, so will be nothing new for you



I haven't made the actual T-38 tank yet and was planning to get some as I enjoyed the other UM kits. Now I have seen the chassis I shall definately be getting some. Nice work, it looks like it will build up into an interesting piece, makes a change from our usual fare.

All the best,

Paul
casualmodeler
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Hame, Finland
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Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 09:21 AM UTC


Thereīs the finished train, built by my friend. Neither me or any of my friend donīt have pics about unassembled kit. All parts were light yellow with strange shining and crispy surface, like resin. Lots of flash and many broken small parts, mostly crab handles, so my friend had to replace all of them. None of parts fit on their place without sanding, adjusting and you still need putty. Many small parts had too thick connecting pins to sprues, so carefull cutting is needed. For tracks wooden bars,you needed heavy duty sidecutters to remove them from sprue.
After all, I would wait, that UM releases all other sections, even one by one, for rest of the train. It may take time and cost more than Armageddon kit but it saves from lots of trouble. Besides, any other 1/72 Panzer 38 t tank is much better, than what comes with this kit.
Korpse
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Queensland, Australia
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Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 07:43 PM UTC
Hi Alexander


Quoted Text

I like the way that you have curved the tracks of the 38t.
I remember UM tracks to be quite stiff and brittle. How did you do it?



Where I live the air temperature is pretty warm to hot most of the year, and I build under a height adjustable lamp with an incandescent globe that throws off a lot of heat - the tracks get warmed up under the lamp, and with gentle pressure bend easily. Alternatives are using hot water or a hair dryer on a heat setting to warm the parts to allow bending.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hi Warren


Quoted Text

Imagine it in 1/35! I am slowly but surely gathering the pieces of a train together from the Trumpeter releases. Problem is it is going to be difficult to display as it will be very long!! There are more than 12 carriages for the train and a few of the cars have still to be released in 1/35, like the set you are building here Nlyall.

At least there is a fair bit of reference material you can use. I have three books on the Armoured Trains at home.




This train would be great in 1/35th. I dont build in that scale, but if anything were to tempt me it would be that train. If you have posted any pictures of what you have built on this site, post the link !

I have the three german armoured books by Wolfgang Sawodny. They are useful. I think I may get the BP 44 but would need some good line drawings, to assist with fixing it up and detailing, and none are in those books. If you know the where any good drawings are let me know

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hi Paul

thanks for the comments, the UM T-38 won't present you with much of a challenge if you get one, has a few missing rivets, which I'll update on in my next post

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hi Kimmo


Quoted Text

Thereīs the finished train, built by my friend. Neither me or any of my friend donīt have pics about unassembled kit. All parts were light yellow with strange shining and crispy surface, like resin. Lots of flash and many broken small parts, mostly crab handles, so my friend had to replace all of them. None of parts fit on their place without sanding, adjusting and you still need putty. Many small parts had too thick connecting pins to sprues, so carefull cutting is needed. For tracks wooden bars,you needed heavy duty sidecutters to remove them from sprue.
After all, I would wait, that UM releases all other sections, even one by one, for rest of the train. It may take time and cost more than Armageddon kit but it saves from lots of trouble. Besides, any other 1/72 Panzer 38 t tank is much better, than what comes with this kit.



thanks heaps for the picture and information, it helps to know what I'm up against, if I buy it.

I'm amazed your friend got it made in 2 weeks unless he had 2 weeks holiday to do it in ! The camouflage pattern he chose looks similar to some black & white photos I've seen of these trains.

I know this BP-44 kit is a real dog, but there is no guarantee that UM will make the rest of these cars. The tank carrier car I'm making here was also used with the heavy scout trains. I've checked UM's site and there is no announcement of any future rail cars except for the Kommand Heavy Scout Car.

cheers
Neil
casualmodeler
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Posted: Friday, November 12, 2010 - 02:03 AM UTC
Well he had surgery and couldnīt go anywhere from home for first two weeks, so he decided to use his spare time well. And second, two other modeller friends were picking him, saying "nobody can build that kind of piece of crap!!"
That was all he needed to get started..
casualmodeler
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Posted: Saturday, November 13, 2010 - 01:09 AM UTC
Hi Neil!
I spotted this on M-L:
BP44 on M-L

You were looking for a book with line drawnings of BP44 in 1/72. Well, neither I havenīt found any but thereīs this book which has line drawnings on 1/35 scale. If that helps in any way. You should take a look at this book:
Waldemar Trojca: Panzerzug BP42 / BP44.
It has many photos, colour drawnings and line drawnings of each part of train. Thereīs only 4-5 text pages, mainly technical data but all in polish unfortunately.
Korpse
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Queensland, Australia
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Posted: Saturday, November 13, 2010 - 11:40 AM UTC
Hi Kimmo


Quoted Text

Well he had surgery and couldnīt go anywhere from home for first two weeks, so he decided to use his spare time well. And second, two other modeller friends were picking him, saying "nobody can build that kind of piece of crap!!"
That was all he needed to get started..



Sorry your friend had surgery, but looks like he put his convalescence time to good use

Seems that everyone who knows about this kit, views the idea of building it with some kind of horror !


Quoted Text

Hi Neil!
I spotted this on M-L:
BP44 on M-L

You were looking for a book with line drawnings of BP44 in 1/72. Well, neither I havenīt found any but thereīs this book which has line drawnings on 1/35 scale. If that helps in any way. You should take a look at this book:
Waldemar Trojca: Panzerzug BP42 / BP44.
It has many photos, colour drawnings and line drawnings of each part of train. Thereīs only 4-5 text pages, mainly technical data but all in polish unfortunately.



hey Kimmo, that was my post. Looking at the pictures in the link to that Malaysian guy's build shows just how badly cast many pieces are. I can cope with the replacing the steps and rungs with wire, and I can replace the T-38 tank and 20mm flak. I just hope the hull pieces have no big bends or warps. I can add rivets where needed. I guess filler and sanding will also be a big part of the build

thanks for the information about the book BP-42 BP-44 book . I will track down a copy. Doesnt matter if drawings are 1/35th, in fact all the better, as it will show me better the details, so I can add any missing rivets etc that dont come on the kit !!

cheers
Neil

thenorm
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Posted: Saturday, November 13, 2010 - 12:11 PM UTC
What company makes these? this may be a project I would like.
casualmodeler
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Posted: Saturday, November 13, 2010 - 11:39 PM UTC
Hi Neil!
Try Jadar-Hobby in Poland. I got my copy from there.
PanzerAlexander
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Posted: Sunday, November 14, 2010 - 08:22 AM UTC
For some 1/76 stuff check this link.

http://www.matadormodels.co.uk/xtrain/lists%20train.htm

P.A.
Korpse
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Posted: Sunday, November 14, 2010 - 08:14 PM UTC
Hello thenorm


Quoted Text

What company makes these? this may be a project I would like.



this is made by Armageddon (mach 2) fromFrance, many big online hobby shops sell these, or you can buy direct from Armageddon. As already stated in this thread this is a dog of a kit which needs lots of work

have a look at some pics in these threads before you buy, so that you know what you are getting

http://s12.invisionfree.com/ScaleModelsMalaysia/ar/t5738.htm

http://www.maketarstvo.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14423&sid=2b809924f22b55668382a481f1f066c8

Hi again Kimmo



Quoted Text

Hi Neil!
Try Jadar-Hobby in Poland. I got my copy from there.



thanks for that. I've gotta get good reference material thats for sure !


Hi Alexander


Quoted Text

For some 1/76 stuff check this link.

http://www.matadormodels.co.uk/xtrain/lists%20train.htm

P.A.



thanks Alexander, interesting to see whats around in 'the other' braille scale



I have made some more progress on the tank carrier and T-38

From checking my Squadron book "Pz Kpfw 38(t) in action I'd say the T-38 is and ausf C (the box and insructions dont say which model)

all the T-38s up to the 'G' model had rivets on the back engine deck, but none came on this kit. This kit is not a 'G' model either.

I added some rivets to the deck, drilling holes and adding water filter balls, sealing them on with a light coat of Hobby Color water based clear acrylic

I also had to cut a vision slot into the turret cupola front vision block and add 6 rivets onto it as well

pics are below

T-38 is not finished but is at the point where I will undercoat it before adding any more small parts, so next job is undercoating, then checking joins, & more putty and sanding if needed

cheers
Neil











Korpse
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Posted: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 - 03:15 PM UTC
Hello

I have this one undercoated and pre shaded.

I tried to shade the areas that are often in shadow or are darkened due to wear, grime or use, with the intention that some shadow will appear through the base coat.

The car carrier wagon sides have no visible joins on the model or in photos of the real thing, though there must have been some joins, otherwise would have been a very large piece of metal which seems unlikely. I sprayed some vertical shadows to break up the flatness and size of the area . Real photos of armoured trains show streaking on the sides also. Steam trains also emitted soot and carbon, which blew back onto the trains, as well as grime & dust from the air settling onto the trains.

The idea is to make the model appear more three dimensional, and to make later weathering/washes easier

next post will see it with a base coat

cheers
Neil







Korpse
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Posted: Thursday, November 25, 2010 - 09:23 AM UTC
Hello

now have some base coats on these. Will finish assembling the T-38 now

and still a lot of work to do on the paintjobs and finish

cheers
Neil








madmax5510
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Posted: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 - 11:31 AM UTC
Another splendid build,thanks for sharring.
It seems you have a lot of free time,if you have started so many builds.
The speed and quality of your work really amazes me ,in a very pleasant way.
Cheers,
Dani
Korpse
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Posted: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - 03:23 PM UTC
Hello

I started this one last November. Then with Christmas in December, and holidays and floods in January, it never got completed. In February I started the BP-44 train which is still keeping me busy, so this one has been neglected till now.

I've finished assembly of both items (the tank carrier and T-38) and have about finished weathering too. The decals for the tank carrier were borrowed from the BP-44 as the UM kit only comes with a german cross for each side, but photos show these carriers had the stencilled data on the side of weight, length etc.

Was a bright sunny day so took some outside pictures but most are not good, too much glare in the sunlight with contrasting shadows, & too dark in the shade to take good pictures, so just a few pictures to post.

Hve to touch up both vehicles a little yet, but they are close enough to finished.

cheers
Neil







Korpse
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Posted: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - 11:06 PM UTC
Hello

I wasnt happy with those last pictures, here are some more, taken indoors where the light isn't fantastic but better than the outdoor light

cheers
Neil











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