Hi,
I'm considering putting some better tracks on my Centaur IV. Don't want to spend a huge amount, but have found some decently priced ones.
But they are for the Cromwell.
I'm guessing that Cromwell and Centaur tracks are the same.
Can anyone confirm.
Cheers,
Nigel
Hosted by Darren Baker
Cromwell and Centaur - Tracks the same?
nheather
Joined: November 12, 2007
KitMaker: 295 posts
Armorama: 204 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 - 10:38 PM UTC
barkingdigger
Associate Editor
#013
Joined: June 20, 2008
KitMaker: 3,981 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 - 10:56 PM UTC
As Cromwell & Centaur were virtually the same tank bar the engine I always thought they used the same tracks - the narrow 14" jobs as supplied by Tamiya. Later on the Cromwell did receive wider 15.5" tracks as used on Challenger, but this was an upgrade long after Centaur was out of the picture. I've certainly used the Hobby Boss indy-links on both and will be rather upset if anyone can prove the tracks are wrong!
I'll be watching to see what the experts say!
Tom
I'll be watching to see what the experts say!
Tom
nheather
Joined: November 12, 2007
KitMaker: 295 posts
Armorama: 204 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 02:02 AM UTC
What are the Hobby Boss like. I've never used aftermarket tracks before as I've been put off by the price.
But these seem quite reasonable - they are the ones I was considering.
I'd wouldn't go any more expensive as my modling skills simply wouldn't justify it.
Cheers,
Nigel
But these seem quite reasonable - they are the ones I was considering.
I'd wouldn't go any more expensive as my modling skills simply wouldn't justify it.
Cheers,
Nigel
barkingdigger
Associate Editor#013
Joined: June 20, 2008
KitMaker: 3,981 posts
Armorama: 3,403 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 04:17 AM UTC
The HB tracks are good, but the links are small & fragile so you need to be careful removing them from the sprues. Once cleaned up I build them into long-ish runs with liquid poly (good old Humbrol) and let them set up for a few minutes before draping them over the wheels. The two big advantages are that you can get good track sag along the top (Cromwell tracks should just touch the top of the centre road wheel) and being plastic you can glue them to all the wheels & sprockets to make a solid assembly that is surprisingly strong. I know others let the tracks solidify without cementing them to the wheels so they can be painted separately, but I prefer to paint the whole "wheels & track" assembly as a block.
With some of the HB sets I've found it safer to saw apart the sprues before using clippers on the links because the sideways pressure from my sprue cutters can deform or even snap the links where they have multiple attachment points. Cutting the sprue apart allows the tension to be released...
Tom
With some of the HB sets I've found it safer to saw apart the sprues before using clippers on the links because the sideways pressure from my sprue cutters can deform or even snap the links where they have multiple attachment points. Cutting the sprue apart allows the tension to be released...
Tom
alanmac
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 3,033 posts
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Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 05:35 AM UTC
Nigel
Do yourself a favour and steer clear of the Hobby Boss tracks. Sorry Tom. After my frustrating and very lengthy clean up of the HB tracks for my Sturer Emil I'd choose any other track than the ones Hobby Boss sell.
I was going to suggest the clickable ones by SKP but upon looking at Historex's web site they are the later 15.5 tracks that Tom mentions.
I've got a Tamiya Cromwell which I was going to get the HB ones for until I brought the ones for the Sturer. Anything but the Hobby boss ones after my experience.
I'd even stick with the kits rubber bands !!
Alan
Do yourself a favour and steer clear of the Hobby Boss tracks. Sorry Tom. After my frustrating and very lengthy clean up of the HB tracks for my Sturer Emil I'd choose any other track than the ones Hobby Boss sell.
I was going to suggest the clickable ones by SKP but upon looking at Historex's web site they are the later 15.5 tracks that Tom mentions.
I've got a Tamiya Cromwell which I was going to get the HB ones for until I brought the ones for the Sturer. Anything but the Hobby boss ones after my experience.
I'd even stick with the kits rubber bands !!Alan
DKdent
Joined: November 27, 2005
KitMaker: 182 posts
Armorama: 180 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 06:21 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Nigel
Do yourself a favour and steer clear of the Hobby Boss tracks. Sorry Tom. After my frustrating and very lengthy clean up of the HB tracks for my Sturer Emil I'd choose any other track than the ones Hobby Boss sell.
I was going to suggest the clickable ones by SKP but upon looking at Historex's web site they are the later 15.5 tracks that Tom mentions.
I've got a Tamiya Cromwell which I was going to get the HB ones for until I brought the ones for the Sturer. Anything but the Hobby boss ones after my experience.
Alan
Hello,
to be honest: I really can`t understand this comment on the HobbyBoss tracks. Sure, there is some clean up like on most other single link tracks, but I found the HB tracks to be cleaned up very easily. It did not took me to long to clean them, although I have to admit that they are very small and sharp-formed so that ou have to take a little break after each 50 parts because your fingers will ache. But, as i said before, you can clean them very fast and easy. The construction is very strong, like Tom said before, even if you don`t glue the tracks to the wheels. The glued links itself are very strong. For this price I would definitely use these tracks respectively will do it again on my next Cromwells.
Cheers
Dennis
alanmac
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 3,033 posts
Armorama: 2,953 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 07:08 AM UTC
Hi Dennis
Obviously your experience and Tom's for that matter was more favourable than mine.
I'm going on my experience with the ones for the Sturer Emil.
First "disappointment" is the tracks are wider than the original kits, so the sprockets don't fit. True, Hobby Boss give you wider replacements but the detail is poor compared to the kit parts. The trouble with the links themselves was they wouldn't fit together to the correct fit without each link having bits shaved off the parts that sit in the following link. That's six little sides on each link to shave a little off plus the overlapping section at the rear, if that all makes sense. Times that by the number of links you've got to do and after a couple of evenings of this they don't feel the bargain you thought they were after all
Alan
Obviously your experience and Tom's for that matter was more favourable than mine.
I'm going on my experience with the ones for the Sturer Emil.
First "disappointment" is the tracks are wider than the original kits, so the sprockets don't fit. True, Hobby Boss give you wider replacements but the detail is poor compared to the kit parts. The trouble with the links themselves was they wouldn't fit together to the correct fit without each link having bits shaved off the parts that sit in the following link. That's six little sides on each link to shave a little off plus the overlapping section at the rear, if that all makes sense. Times that by the number of links you've got to do and after a couple of evenings of this they don't feel the bargain you thought they were after all
Alan
DKdent
Joined: November 27, 2005
KitMaker: 182 posts
Armorama: 180 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 07:37 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Dennis
Obviously your experience and Tom's for that matter was more favourable than mine.
I'm going on my experience with the ones for the Sturer Emil.
First "disappointment" is the tracks are wider than the original kits, so the sprockets don't fit. True, Hobby Boss give you wider replacements but the detail is poor compared to the kit parts. The trouble with the links themselves was they wouldn't fit together to the correct fit without each link having bits shaved off the parts that sit in the following link. That's six little sides on each link to shave a little off plus the overlapping section at the rear, if that all makes sense. Times that by the number of links you've got to do and after a couple of evenings of this they don't feel the bargain you thought they were after all
Alan
Hey Alan,
this truly sounds very disappointing. Thanks for this informations. With these experiences I probably would not have recommended these tracks as well. But, luckily, the tracks for the Cromwell are of another kind so that I can recommend them in this special case.
Regards
Dennis
barkingdigger
Associate Editor#013
Joined: June 20, 2008
KitMaker: 3,981 posts
Armorama: 3,403 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 08:22 AM UTC
Alan,
Hi - I seem to recall hearing bad things about Sturer Emil tracks too, but can't remember any details. I know through experience that the Cromwell ones are easy enough to clean, go together well, and fit the sprockets, but I haven't handled the Emil ones.
Despite our desires to identify whole brands as good or bad the truth is that there is no guarantee that all the kits from a manufacturer are cut to the same standard by the same craftsman, even though they are the same brand, so it reinforces the value of info here on the Big A from folks who have built the kits! So, thanks for the heads-up on the Emil tracks - I had thought about them for a project, but will now find an alternative...
By the way, I'm now on my third set of Panther tracks by HB. They lack the open guide horns, but are the right size and go together well enough to cheaply upgrade old kits like the Italeri ones.
Tom
Hi - I seem to recall hearing bad things about Sturer Emil tracks too, but can't remember any details. I know through experience that the Cromwell ones are easy enough to clean, go together well, and fit the sprockets, but I haven't handled the Emil ones.
Despite our desires to identify whole brands as good or bad the truth is that there is no guarantee that all the kits from a manufacturer are cut to the same standard by the same craftsman, even though they are the same brand, so it reinforces the value of info here on the Big A from folks who have built the kits! So, thanks for the heads-up on the Emil tracks - I had thought about them for a project, but will now find an alternative...
By the way, I'm now on my third set of Panther tracks by HB. They lack the open guide horns, but are the right size and go together well enough to cheaply upgrade old kits like the Italeri ones.
Tom
alanmac
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 3,033 posts
Armorama: 2,953 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 10:35 AM UTC
Hi
yes I agree 100% with your statement that it is wrong to give any manufacturer a rating of good or bad on its whole range rather than realising that like all us humans we have our good and bad days.
With the two of you getting no problems with your Cromwell tracks from Hobby Boss maybe I should give them a second chance. After all I like Italeri kits so I must be a glutton for punishment
By the way Tom have you seen Bronco have entered the fray big time on aftermarket tracks and they do working Panther tracks for about half that of MK or Fruils.
http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/AB3540
Also I see SKP are doing some.
http://www.panther-models.com/products/SKP-Model-102-%252d-Clickable-Track-Links-for-Panther-A-or-G-.html
yes I agree 100% with your statement that it is wrong to give any manufacturer a rating of good or bad on its whole range rather than realising that like all us humans we have our good and bad days.
With the two of you getting no problems with your Cromwell tracks from Hobby Boss maybe I should give them a second chance. After all I like Italeri kits so I must be a glutton for punishment
By the way Tom have you seen Bronco have entered the fray big time on aftermarket tracks and they do working Panther tracks for about half that of MK or Fruils.
http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/AB3540
Also I see SKP are doing some.
http://www.panther-models.com/products/SKP-Model-102-%252d-Clickable-Track-Links-for-Panther-A-or-G-.html
alanmac
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 3,033 posts
Armorama: 2,953 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 11:17 AM UTC
Hi Nigel
after going of track a little here is something to get us back. I see that SKP have another set of tracks coming out which you drill and pin. Don't think they are available in the shops yet but Terry's done a review on them.
Here
Alan
after going of track a little here is something to get us back. I see that SKP have another set of tracks coming out which you drill and pin. Don't think they are available in the shops yet but Terry's done a review on them.
Here
Alan
barkingdigger
Associate Editor#013
Joined: June 20, 2008
KitMaker: 3,981 posts
Armorama: 3,403 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 10:11 PM UTC
Alan,
Wow! Those SKP tracks look interesting, even if drilling out every pin hole sounds tedious & scary. Almost tempted to build another Cromwell just to try them...
(As an O/T aside, those new Panther links look good, and I need to get my hands on those Bronco Shermie tracks! Who says aftermarket isn't addictive?)
Tom
Wow! Those SKP tracks look interesting, even if drilling out every pin hole sounds tedious & scary. Almost tempted to build another Cromwell just to try them...
(As an O/T aside, those new Panther links look good, and I need to get my hands on those Bronco Shermie tracks! Who says aftermarket isn't addictive?)
Tom
nheather
Joined: November 12, 2007
KitMaker: 295 posts
Armorama: 204 posts
Posted: Friday, November 12, 2010 - 02:48 AM UTC
Thanks for the info - I will have a look at the other links and tracks.
To be honest I will probably stick with the rubber tracks on this kit. As I mentioned before, I don't think I'm am skilled enough to justify spending lots of money on PE, resin and tracks.
As it is I think that £20 for a kit is expensive, given the average job I will make of it.
Most I have ever spent is £30 on a Dragon Flak 36 which is sat on the shelve until I have honed my skills on a few cheaper models.
Cheers,
Nigel
To be honest I will probably stick with the rubber tracks on this kit. As I mentioned before, I don't think I'm am skilled enough to justify spending lots of money on PE, resin and tracks.
As it is I think that £20 for a kit is expensive, given the average job I will make of it.
Most I have ever spent is £30 on a Dragon Flak 36 which is sat on the shelve until I have honed my skills on a few cheaper models.
Cheers,
Nigel
barkingdigger
Associate Editor#013
Joined: June 20, 2008
KitMaker: 3,981 posts
Armorama: 3,403 posts
Posted: Friday, November 12, 2010 - 04:35 AM UTC
Nigel,
I hear ya about costs - the newer Dragon & Tasca stuff is way too steep for a simple hobby! The HB plastic tracks are still worth while, and I've had good luck finding them fairly cheap on ebay, but they are far from necessary. The only real problem with the vinyl Tamiya tracks is getting them to sag along the top of the wheels, so as long as you're happy to pin them or tie them down they'll be just fine. (Nothing says "toy-like" louder than floating tracks...)
As for the general cost of upgrades, I rarely go in for PE or resin stuff unless it comes with the kit. Like you, I just can't justify doubling or even tripling the price of a kit that way. And of course there's also my dislike of anything that resists liquid poly! Tracks are my only real weakness as far as AM stuff goes, since they are the most visible flaw in many kits. Even then I prefer plastic ones that I can glue.
Tom
I hear ya about costs - the newer Dragon & Tasca stuff is way too steep for a simple hobby! The HB plastic tracks are still worth while, and I've had good luck finding them fairly cheap on ebay, but they are far from necessary. The only real problem with the vinyl Tamiya tracks is getting them to sag along the top of the wheels, so as long as you're happy to pin them or tie them down they'll be just fine. (Nothing says "toy-like" louder than floating tracks...)
As for the general cost of upgrades, I rarely go in for PE or resin stuff unless it comes with the kit. Like you, I just can't justify doubling or even tripling the price of a kit that way. And of course there's also my dislike of anything that resists liquid poly! Tracks are my only real weakness as far as AM stuff goes, since they are the most visible flaw in many kits. Even then I prefer plastic ones that I can glue.
Tom
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