I am interested in building the Tamiya kit of the British army Chieftain. I have been trying to find out if the Army used these vehicles in Northern Ireland during the early 1970’s. I was in my early teens then and I have some vague recollection of seeing these tanks on the streets back then. I understand that tanks had being drafted in to remove street barriers and barricades during Operation Motorman, the offensive mounted by the army to break the no-go areas in Belfast and L’Derry.

Thanks in advance

Cookie

Not 100% sure, but I remember reading somewhere that - as far as tracked AFV are concerned - only 4 Centurion AVRE (without cannon) were deployed. Pictures at CAIN.



-Ales

Found this photo



Sourced from this web page on the incident

http://www.museumoffreederry.org/history-motorman.html

Any use

Nige

It would appear that Centurion's where used in NI not Chieftains. So the next question is where did the Chieftain see action i know they where exported to some middle east countries and captured vehicles where seen in the Iran/Iraq war.
I could do a Diaorama of a Centurion on the streets of Belfast.

Cookie

Hi.

The Iraqi Republican Guard had a handful of captured Iranian Cheiftains which they used during desert storm.

I did have a picture of an abandoned one somewhere. I will see if i can dig it out.

Regards. Nick.

Cookie

Chieftains were exported to Iran before the fall of the Shah and were used by the Iranians in the Iran/Iraq war. Probably some were captured and used by the Iraqis too.

The Kuwaitis also bought some (80). They were used against the Iraqis during their invasion (with some success). Some (22) escaped to Saudi and were used by Kuwaiti forces during the liberation of Kuwait. Some pics in various books on the first Gulf War , certainly Concord's Blitzkrieg in the Gulf (#4001).

Chris

Hi paul

With concern to the iraqi Chieftian's I have found some pictures of some in eastern Iraq (I think there iraqi republican guard machine's I could be wrong) During Operation Iraqi Freedom.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/26745232@N08/2514140503

http://www.flickr.com/photos/26745232@N08/2514970418/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/26745232@N08/2514971678/in/photostream/

Hope there of some help

They were captured by Iraq from Iran. They were used by the INA an insurgent army of Irainans that Iraq backed. They were not used by Iraq.

Ah I did'nt realise that, well ive learnt something new today

Is it conceivable that Kuwaiti chieftains ever squared off against these INA chieftains then?

I guess its possible, but I would of thought that and incounter with a M1 Abrams, a Challenger or another NATO tank would be more likely as there were higher numbers of them.

But to be completely honest I dont know for sure I dont know much about The conflict these fought in, its just what I think

They may have trained with Chieftains in Northern Ireland out in the countryside, but there was no point in taking main battle tanks into city centers where they could never fire their weapons, in any case. Armored vehicles used in urban areas during The Troubles were mostly Humber "Pig" armored trucks, and Shorland armored Land Rovers.
Chieftains were deployed by UK forces on peacekeeping duties in Bosnia around 1998-99, but those were much later variants, Mk 12's probably. The Tamiya kit is a Mk 3 or really early Mk 5. Accurate Armour offered some update sets in resin, if you're interested.

Chieftains were deployed by UK forces on peacekeeping duties in Bosnia around 1998-99, but those were much later variants, Mk 12's probably. The Tamiya kit is a Mk 3 or really early Mk 5. Accurate Armour offered some update sets in resin, if you're interested.[/quote]

i am pretty sure cheiftains where out of service by then, i only remember challanger 1 being in bosnia.

It was the Challenger 1s that deployed to Bosnia with NATO led IFOR in December 1995(Operation Resolute)....not the Chieftain.

An interesting note about the Centurion AVREs with Operation Motorman was that the turrets were traversed so the main gun was over the back deck....the guns were not not removed but they did have vehicle tarps draped over them to keep them out of sight and less aggressive looking.

One Chieftain was indeed present in Northern Ireland in the late 1960's and early 1970s because the RAC was switching over its regiments over to Chieftain and since most of these rotated through NI as ersatz infantry regiments one was kept on one of the bases for familiarisation purposes, it was certainly not involved in Motorman. Pretty sure I saw this in Bob Griffin's book, I'd guess it was a Mk2.
As for the Iraqi Chieftains, the ML discussion board has had this subject discussed, I believe they determined that the operational Chieftains were refitted in Jordan but were never used in combat, some being given to Jordan and some being assigned to the Iranian counter-revolutionary forces but not operationally due to shortage of spares. Kuwait certainly did use theirs in combat during the invasion and the liberation, in the latter case alongside M84s.
I believe that a re-engining program was begun in Iran since the gulf war with their remaining few hundred Chieftains but I am not certain how many tanks were so converted nor to which engine type.
I'm interested in converting the Tamiya kit into a MK2, any advice from anyone who's done that would be greatly appreciated, especially measurements for the turret water can rack and the large rear hull stowage bins (in mm please!).
Regards
merlin

Thanks for the feedback. I now know that the tanks used here where Centurions But the information recieved will be useful in the future. I am still intrested in building a model of the chieftain.

Cookie

Around 900 Chieftains were built for the British Army, with production being completed in the early 1970s. Iran ordered over 700 Chieftains in 1971 (Mk.3/3(P) and Mk.5/3(P)) with a number of armoured recovery vehicles and bridgelayers. Iran also took delivery of some 180 'improved' Chieftains, designated the FV4030/1, which carried more fuel, had improved mine protection and additional shock absorbers as well as electronic control of the transmission.

Subsequent to this, in 1974 Iran ordered 1,225 Shir 2s, and as an interim measure prepared to take delivery of 125 Shir 1s, but the whole order was cancelled in 1979 after the Islamic Revolution. The British Army eventually accepted the Shir 1 for service as the Challenger.

Jordan also ordered the Shir 1 under the name Khalid, albeit with a number of modifications, including a new Perkins Engines Company Condor V-12 1200 diesel (with 1,200bhp), a DBDE TN37 transmission, and a Howden Aircontrol cooling system. Oman also bought a number of Chieftain Mk.15s (named Qayd al Ardh) in the mid-1980s.

During fighting in the Middle East, Iraq captured approximately 300 Chieftain MBTs from Iran, many of which were undamaged. In 1988, Iraq passed 90 Chieftains on to Jordan amongst a large quantity of military equipment.

From The Army Rumour Service (ARRSE) website :- http://www.arrse.co.uk/

HTH Paul