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Mini Art
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 - 05:55 PM UTC
Just a thought...I am a big fan of the more recent MiniArt models. Their buildings and structures, however, being of vacuum formed parts, can be a challenge to build, but when finished properly and painted really look good. Now here's an idea for MiniArt - retool and make the buildings from injected plastic. They could still use the same method of having a front and rear parts to each wall making them hollow to save weight, plastic, and (hopefully) cost. Injected molding will also give the pieces a crisper finish with sharper detail and textures. They already make the doors, windows, framing, and other details by injection so why not the entire buildings?
Kinggeorges
Joined: August 31, 2005
KitMaker: 1,380 posts
Armorama: 845 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 - 08:52 PM UTC
I second that, just like Italiery did with its little scenery.
Julien
Julien
Spiderfrommars
Joined: July 13, 2010
KitMaker: 3,845 posts
Armorama: 3,543 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 - 09:20 PM UTC
mhhh
In my opinion they use the vacum form casting tecnology exactly to avoid the higher costs of a plastic injection mold
But then, the use of a cheaper tecnology allows them to have a higher number of items...so eventually, altough the kit quality is lower, I think that is better also for all the modellers
cheers
In my opinion they use the vacum form casting tecnology exactly to avoid the higher costs of a plastic injection mold
But then, the use of a cheaper tecnology allows them to have a higher number of items...so eventually, altough the kit quality is lower, I think that is better also for all the modellers
cheers
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 03:44 AM UTC
Actually, I wouldn't mind paying a little more for something which is better quality and easier and faster to build. Italeri was a half-hearted attempt in the right direction...if only they had included the inside wall sections. I wouldn't mind scratch building the interiors, but even Italeri's buildings are hard to find now.
Spiderfrommars
Joined: July 13, 2010
KitMaker: 3,845 posts
Armorama: 3,543 posts
Posted: Friday, November 19, 2010 - 12:42 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Actually, I wouldn't mind paying a little more for something which is better quality and easier and faster to build. Italeri was a half-hearted attempt in the right direction...if only they had included the inside wall sections. I wouldn't mind scratch building the interiors, but even Italeri's buildings are hard to find now.
Yes, i understand what you mean. But in my opinion nowadays may be very difficult for a kit company producing at the same time kits and "buildings"
A plastic kit mold is very very expensive and the kit market is smaller than the past. When Italeri produced its building kits, the situation was different. Almost all the kids did plastic model hobby, the market was huge, and that was the reason why they could made a large number of low price Items
Today plastic model hobby is an adult matter. The modellers are relatively few and they are demanding A kit on average costs a lot or anyway a lot more than the past. The big companies kits focus all their efforts (economical and on historycal research) mostly on the subjects reproduction. They leave to the smaller companies the accesories production (like diorama items), and the smaller companies, usually can't afford a plastic mold investment
A solution could be the born of a company which make just "Building in plastic"...but in my opinion is an improbable scenario
Cheers
downtowndeco
Vendor
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 306 posts
Armorama: 272 posts
Posted: Friday, November 19, 2010 - 02:54 AM UTC
In the end, the reason I choose hydrocal plaster to produce my kits was because while it allows very high quality and detail, since the manufacturing process only requires silicon rubber molds and not expensive tool and die work, I didn't have to sell thousands of kits to make the venture profitable.
The other thing I looked at was ease of construction. Most of our kits are comprised of just 3 or 4 main plaster castings & seperate, laser cut wood doors/windows/shattered glass. In most cases the modelers can get the basic structures epoxied together & ready to start painting in about 15 minutes.
Randy Pepprock
Dioramas Plus
The other thing I looked at was ease of construction. Most of our kits are comprised of just 3 or 4 main plaster castings & seperate, laser cut wood doors/windows/shattered glass. In most cases the modelers can get the basic structures epoxied together & ready to start painting in about 15 minutes.
Randy Pepprock
Dioramas Plus
GregCloseCombat
Joined: June 30, 2008
KitMaker: 2,408 posts
Armorama: 2,394 posts
Posted: Friday, November 19, 2010 - 03:30 AM UTC
Dear Downtown Deco,
any 1/48 scenes like that in the works?
I'm still hopeful Miniart will do some someday too (in ANY form...lol)
any 1/48 scenes like that in the works?
I'm still hopeful Miniart will do some someday too (in ANY form...lol)
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Friday, November 19, 2010 - 04:18 AM UTC
Hi Randy. Yes I've seen your work in 1/35 as well as the model RR buildings. By the way, don't you produce some in '0' scale (1/48) for Greg, above? But do your buildings have interior wall detail? Most ceramic/plaster/hydrocal buildings have a plain smooth interior due to molding limitations and any detailing needs to be done by scribing (arghhh!), or by applique. As stated above, MiniArt buildings have interior as well as exterior detailing because of the two-piece constuction, but suffer from soft detail because of the vacuum form process. A sudden thought!...how about you molding inner and outer walls, thinner of course, and the modeler glues the two pieces back to back resulting in detail on both sides? Wouldn't that be possible? Maybe more fragile during shipping but requiring more padding.
downtowndeco
Vendor
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 306 posts
Armorama: 272 posts
Posted: Friday, November 19, 2010 - 06:42 AM UTC
Thanks for your reply, I appreciate the input.
I don't do any 1/48 buildings for military dio yet but have plans to. Stay tuned!
The interiors do not have detail but are smooth plaster. Here's my feelings on that.
OK, yes, we could do two thinner castings to glue together. But that's more work on this end & that means more cost for the modeler. We decided not to go that route because in many cases the interiors are never shown anyway.
Most interiors are not raw brick or stone, correct? They are either stucco/plasterboard or covered by wallpaper or perhaps wood paneling. Would that be fair to say? Well, if the interior is suppossed to represent stucco then the smooth plaster walls are a great starting point. Yes, you may have to scribe in a few cracks or bullet impact points, but IMO you could do all you needed to in about 5 minutes.
If the interior is suppossed to be wallpaper you simply cover the interior w/wallpaper. If it's suppossed to be wood paneling perhaps w/a wainescoat (sp?) then that could be added w/styrene. Not too big of a deal.
I don't really want to get into saying anything bad about Miniart because they make a fine product that I've seen finished up very nicely. But keep in mind that while the vaccuform buildings save you the time of having to do the interior, there is also a lot of cutting, fitting and filling with the two sides of the vacuform parts to get that effect. With a plaster building such as we offer, you can have the basic structures together in about 15 minutes so you can get to the fun part.
It just depends on what it is you're going for. One type of kit (vacuform) offers you detail on both sides, but the detail is softer and the kit is more time consuming to get to a finished state. The other type (cast plaster) only offers detail on one side but the detail is much crisper and is much simpler to build and finish.
Again, this is no knock on Miniart. They make a fine product and sell a ton of it worldwide so they must be doing something right. It's just different modeling philosophies.
DP1 Brick Ruins. On special this weekend. Buy this kit @ $42.95 & I'll throw in one of my DP4 Small Ruins kits (a $23 value) at no charge. Offer expires 11/21/10.
Cheers!
Randy Pepprock
Dioramas Plus
I don't do any 1/48 buildings for military dio yet but have plans to. Stay tuned!
The interiors do not have detail but are smooth plaster. Here's my feelings on that.
OK, yes, we could do two thinner castings to glue together. But that's more work on this end & that means more cost for the modeler. We decided not to go that route because in many cases the interiors are never shown anyway.
Most interiors are not raw brick or stone, correct? They are either stucco/plasterboard or covered by wallpaper or perhaps wood paneling. Would that be fair to say? Well, if the interior is suppossed to represent stucco then the smooth plaster walls are a great starting point. Yes, you may have to scribe in a few cracks or bullet impact points, but IMO you could do all you needed to in about 5 minutes.
If the interior is suppossed to be wallpaper you simply cover the interior w/wallpaper. If it's suppossed to be wood paneling perhaps w/a wainescoat (sp?) then that could be added w/styrene. Not too big of a deal.
I don't really want to get into saying anything bad about Miniart because they make a fine product that I've seen finished up very nicely. But keep in mind that while the vaccuform buildings save you the time of having to do the interior, there is also a lot of cutting, fitting and filling with the two sides of the vacuform parts to get that effect. With a plaster building such as we offer, you can have the basic structures together in about 15 minutes so you can get to the fun part.
It just depends on what it is you're going for. One type of kit (vacuform) offers you detail on both sides, but the detail is softer and the kit is more time consuming to get to a finished state. The other type (cast plaster) only offers detail on one side but the detail is much crisper and is much simpler to build and finish.
Again, this is no knock on Miniart. They make a fine product and sell a ton of it worldwide so they must be doing something right. It's just different modeling philosophies.
DP1 Brick Ruins. On special this weekend. Buy this kit @ $42.95 & I'll throw in one of my DP4 Small Ruins kits (a $23 value) at no charge. Offer expires 11/21/10.
Cheers!
Randy Pepprock
Dioramas Plus
Quoted Text
Hi Randy. Yes I've seen your work in 1/35 as well as the model RR buildings. By the way, don't you produce some in '0' scale (1/48) for Greg, above? But do your buildings have interior wall detail? Most ceramic/plaster/hydrocal buildings have a plain smooth interior due to molding limitations and any detailing needs to be done by scribing (arghhh!), or by applique. As stated above, MiniArt buildings have interior as well as exterior detailing because of the two-piece constuction, but suffer from soft detail because of the vacuum form process. A sudden thought!...how about you molding inner and outer walls, thinner of course, and the modeler glues the two pieces back to back resulting in detail on both sides? Wouldn't that be possible? Maybe more fragile during shipping but requiring more padding.
exer
Joined: November 27, 2004
KitMaker: 6,048 posts
Armorama: 4,619 posts
Posted: Friday, November 19, 2010 - 07:29 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The other thing I looked at was ease of construction. Most of our kits are comprised of just 3 or 4 main plaster castings & seperate, laser cut wood doors/windows/shattered glass. In most cases the modelers can get the basic structures epoxied together & ready to start painting in about 15 minutes.
Bear in mind that's not what all modellers want. I've made a lot of Miniart buildings and I don't see them as being accessories to armour kits but models in themselves, which I like to spend a lot of time on,- this ruined chuch I put together from three miniart kits
I enjoy the challenge of the vac form kits and the detail is getting better and better.
Recently my 8 year old daughter picked out miniarts European Farmyard in 1/72 scale which is injection moulded.
She thought it was great and vacform would have been too complicated for her. I know many modelers feel the same but if changing to injection moulded pushes the price up I'd rather go for plaster
downtowndeco
Vendor
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 306 posts
Armorama: 272 posts
Posted: Friday, November 19, 2010 - 08:17 AM UTC
Great job on the church. For me too, the building/diorama is the thing. It helps tell and sell the story. The only thing I would add to that is I'm not really into doing some tedious thing that won't show in the finished diorama anyway, such as having to carefully cut, fit, glue seams and then spackle over them to hide the joints. That just takes up "fun time", which to me, is painting the structure & base to look realistic and adding he details. Just depends what you like to do, there is no no right or wrong way to enjoy the hobby. Cheers!
Randy Pepprock
Dioramas Plus
Randy Pepprock
Dioramas Plus
Quoted Text
Quoted TextThe other thing I looked at was ease of construction. Most of our kits are comprised of just 3 or 4 main plaster castings & seperate, laser cut wood doors/windows/shattered glass. In most cases the modelers can get the basic structures epoxied together & ready to start painting in about 15 minutes.
Bear in mind that's not what all modellers want. I've made a lot of Miniart buildings and I don't see them as being accessories to armour kits but models in themselves, which I like to spend a lot of time on,- this ruined chuch I put together from three miniart kits
I enjoy the challenge of the vac form kits and the detail is getting better and better.
Recently my 8 year old daughter picked out miniarts European Farmyard in 1/72 scale which is injection moulded.
She thought it was great and vacform would have been too complicated for her. I know many modelers feel the same but if changing to injection moulded pushes the price up I'd rather go for plaster
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 21, 2010 - 10:03 AM UTC
Hey Randy! Isn't your 'Downtown Deco' line for model RR in O scale? Maybe these buildings are too American looking and would be out of place in a European setting. BTW where do you list your 1/35 buildings. I've been to your site and you only list N, HO, and O scales. OK, I looked some more and found them as Diorama Plus. Everybody makes ruined and/or damaged buildings, how about some intact ones for a change, and some 'flat fronts' for backdrops. Intact building walls can always be damaged by "oops! dropped the *#!$~% piece!" 
downtowndeco
Vendor
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 306 posts
Armorama: 272 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 21, 2010 - 01:18 PM UTC
Yes, I have done 1/48 railroad pieces but I think they're too American to work for WWII Euro stuff.
I have looked at doing undamaged pieces but it seems to me while some modelers request them the war damaged buildings still sell better. I could be wrong about that.
Randy Pepprock
Dioramas Plus
I have looked at doing undamaged pieces but it seems to me while some modelers request them the war damaged buildings still sell better. I could be wrong about that.
Randy Pepprock
Dioramas Plus
Quoted Text
Hey Randy! Isn't your 'Downtown Deco' line for model RR in O scale? Maybe these buildings are too American looking and would be out of place in a European setting. BTW where do you list your 1/35 buildings. I've been to your site and you only list N, HO, and O scales. OK, I looked some more and found them as Diorama Plus. Everybody makes ruined and/or damaged buildings, how about some intact ones for a change, and some 'flat fronts' for backdrops. Intact building walls can always be damaged by "oops! dropped the *#!$~% piece!"
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