Don't have an airbrush, so I use rattle cans and masking to do my base coats and I've noticed that there is not a Panzer green option from Testors, Tamiya, or Floquil/Polly-S. Anyone have any recomendations for what would be the closest to Panzer green from those three (what my LHS carries) manufacturers? Thanks.
Sean
AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Matthew Toms
Best rattle can color for Panzer green?
scgatgbi
Joined: May 28, 2009
KitMaker: 285 posts
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Posted: Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 03:38 AM UTC
Belt_Fed
Joined: February 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
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Posted: Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 03:52 AM UTC
Tamiya TS-78 Field Grey is what i use (in regular form) on my Pnazers. Karl Logan uses the same, and if its good enough for him....
SSGToms
Joined: April 02, 2005
KitMaker: 3,608 posts
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Posted: Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 06:30 AM UTC
Wait a minute - Olivgrun is a completely different color from Field Grey. Olivgrun is part of the 3 color scheme and is a forest green, like Hunter Green. Field Grey is a grey-green for German uniforms and small equipment. It has no application on the outside of a panzer.
scgatgbi
Joined: May 28, 2009
KitMaker: 285 posts
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Posted: Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 07:31 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Wait a minute - Olivgrun is a completely different color from Field Grey. Olivgrun is part of the 3 color scheme and is a forest green, like Hunter Green. Field Grey is a grey-green for German uniforms and small equipment. It has no application on the outside of a panzer.
Matt,
So do you think a can of hunter green, say from home depot, would be an acceptable alternative for olivgrun? or is there another you might suggest? Thanks.
Sean
pseudorealityx
Joined: January 31, 2010
KitMaker: 2,191 posts
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Posted: Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 07:36 AM UTC
Tamiya has a dark green in a spray can.
scgatgbi
Joined: May 28, 2009
KitMaker: 285 posts
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Posted: Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 08:13 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Tamiya has a dark green in a spray can.
For some reason the dark green looks too dark to me, but then again olivegrun seems to be a hard color to pin down. I've seen so many light and dark variations it's hard to know where to settle.
SSGToms
Joined: April 02, 2005
KitMaker: 3,608 posts
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Posted: Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 09:02 AM UTC
I've always used Tamiya XF-26 Deep Green myself, which looks too bright on application but looks perfect to me after weathering. I know, it's in a bottle and won't help you, Sean, but it will give you a color reference.
Perhaps "Hunter Green" isn't the best description. It's less bright than that.
Lifecolor's RAL 6003 Olivgrun is the same tone, but more olive, more toward Russian 4BO but definitely not Olive Drab.
Vallejo's "Panzer Olive Green" is right between the two.
Hopefully this gives you enough to compare the can caps and pick a color you feel right with.
Perhaps "Hunter Green" isn't the best description. It's less bright than that.
Lifecolor's RAL 6003 Olivgrun is the same tone, but more olive, more toward Russian 4BO but definitely not Olive Drab.
Vallejo's "Panzer Olive Green" is right between the two.
Hopefully this gives you enough to compare the can caps and pick a color you feel right with.
scgatgbi
Joined: May 28, 2009
KitMaker: 285 posts
Armorama: 267 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 09:15 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I've always used Tamiya XF-26 Deep Green myself, which looks too bright on application but looks perfect to me after weathering. I know, it's in a bottle and won't help you, Sean, but it will give you a color reference.
Perhaps "Hunter Green" isn't the best description. It's less bright than that.
Lifecolor's RAL 6003 Olivgrun is the same tone, but more olive, more toward Russian 4BO but definitely not Olive Drab.
Vallejo's "Panzer Olive Green" is right between the two.
Hopefully this gives you enough to compare the can caps and pick a color you feel right with.
Matt,
I have a feeling I'll be taking some bottles or making a paint chart with dabs of paint on a index card to home depot and try to compare them to the cap colors. What's nuts about that is the color of the cap is usually a bit "off" from the actual color. Was hoping someone stuck in the same situation here may have already solved this problem for us hapless soles that don't have airbrushes. Thanks.
Considering how many people paint panzers I wonder why none of the paint manufacturers make Olivegrun in a rattle can?
pseudorealityx
Joined: January 31, 2010
KitMaker: 2,191 posts
Armorama: 1,814 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 10:58 AM UTC
I've heard the paint was distributed as "bricks" of pigment that were then mixed with whatever carrier the soldiers had available, be it gasoline, kerosene, whatever. That alone would account for many different shades of color as the soldiers mixed their own colors.
SSGToms
Joined: April 02, 2005
KitMaker: 3,608 posts
Armorama: 3,092 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 12:56 PM UTC
Sean,
I'm not sure why nobody makes Olivgrun in a rattlecan. But for the price of two new Tamiya, Bronco, or Dragon kits (say, $112) you can buy an Iwata Revolution CR from Chicago Airbrush and a 3 gallon pancake compressor from Harbor Freight and you're an airbrush owner.
As to the colors, I recently spent several hours sitting with Tom Jentz and discussing colors and schemes. Problem #1 is that the RAL card changed twice since the war ( the numbers, colors, and names are not the same today) and nobody can find an original of either the 1932 or 1941 card. The best references are original, unfaded, unexposed painted surfaces such as the inside of airtight ammo boxes or two surfaces that were bolted together. I've seen examples of each. Now, I know that monitors can all be different, but it's what I can show you. Here's a very good modern RAL chart - RAL color chart.
Referring to that chart, RAL 6010 is what I would pick to match the examples I've been shown, BUT 6003 is still called Olive Green and is very close. I doubt anyone would raise an eyebrow if you used either on a model.
I'm not sure why nobody makes Olivgrun in a rattlecan. But for the price of two new Tamiya, Bronco, or Dragon kits (say, $112) you can buy an Iwata Revolution CR from Chicago Airbrush and a 3 gallon pancake compressor from Harbor Freight and you're an airbrush owner.
As to the colors, I recently spent several hours sitting with Tom Jentz and discussing colors and schemes. Problem #1 is that the RAL card changed twice since the war ( the numbers, colors, and names are not the same today) and nobody can find an original of either the 1932 or 1941 card. The best references are original, unfaded, unexposed painted surfaces such as the inside of airtight ammo boxes or two surfaces that were bolted together. I've seen examples of each. Now, I know that monitors can all be different, but it's what I can show you. Here's a very good modern RAL chart - RAL color chart.
Referring to that chart, RAL 6010 is what I would pick to match the examples I've been shown, BUT 6003 is still called Olive Green and is very close. I doubt anyone would raise an eyebrow if you used either on a model.
SSGToms
Joined: April 02, 2005
KitMaker: 3,608 posts
Armorama: 3,092 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 01:08 PM UTC
Jesse,
During the time that vehicles were delivered in Dunkelgelb and Battalions were provided with the Olivgrun and Rotbraun, it came in cans of paste the consistency of drywall compound and was designed to be thinned with any solvent based thinner such as mineral spirits and turpentine, then gasoline, kerosene, etc. and finally water as the least preferable. What it was thinned with and how much it was thinned would change the opacity of the paint. How well it covered the Dunkelgelb would make the color appear differently.
During the time that vehicles were delivered in Dunkelgelb and Battalions were provided with the Olivgrun and Rotbraun, it came in cans of paste the consistency of drywall compound and was designed to be thinned with any solvent based thinner such as mineral spirits and turpentine, then gasoline, kerosene, etc. and finally water as the least preferable. What it was thinned with and how much it was thinned would change the opacity of the paint. How well it covered the Dunkelgelb would make the color appear differently.
Belt_Fed
Joined: February 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,325 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 01:14 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Wait a minute - Olivgrun is a completely different color from Field Grey. Olivgrun is part of the 3 color scheme and is a forest green, like Hunter Green. Field Grey is a grey-green for German uniforms and small equipment. It has no application on the outside of a panzer.
Just because it isnt labeled as "olive grun" doesn't mean it can't be used as one. To my eye, Field Grey has just the right amount of a blueish hue in it and, comparing it to wartime photos and restored vehicles, i think it is an excellent match.
Removed by original poster on 11/19/10 - 01:33:01 (GMT).
Paul-H
Joined: April 02, 2010
KitMaker: 234 posts
Armorama: 207 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 10:04 PM UTC
Hi
I am not saying you are wrong so don't take offence at what I am about to say.
You should not use war time colour (Color) photos as an accurate reference, the colour film and printing process available during the war was well known for its lack of colour accuracy. It can be used as a rough guide but thats all.
Regards
Paul
I am not saying you are wrong so don't take offence at what I am about to say.
You should not use war time colour (Color) photos as an accurate reference, the colour film and printing process available during the war was well known for its lack of colour accuracy. It can be used as a rough guide but thats all.
Regards
Paul
scgatgbi
Joined: May 28, 2009
KitMaker: 285 posts
Armorama: 267 posts
Posted: Friday, November 19, 2010 - 02:03 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Sean,
I'm not sure why nobody makes Olivgrun in a rattlecan. But for the price of two new Tamiya, Bronco, or Dragon kits (say, $112) you can buy an Iwata Revolution CR from Chicago Airbrush and a 3 gallon pancake compressor from Harbor Freight and you're an airbrush owner.
As to the colors, I recently spent several hours sitting with Tom Jentz and discussing colors and schemes. Problem #1 is that the RAL card changed twice since the war ( the numbers, colors, and names are not the same today) and nobody can find an original of either the 1932 or 1941 card. The best references are original, unfaded, unexposed painted surfaces such as the inside of airtight ammo boxes or two surfaces that were bolted together. I've seen examples of each. Now, I know that monitors can all be different, but it's what I can show you. Here's a very good modern RAL chart - RAL color chart.
Referring to that chart, RAL 6010 is what I would pick to match the examples I've been shown, BUT 6003 is still called Olive Green and is very close. I doubt anyone would raise an eyebrow if you used either on a model.
Matt,
Thanks for the link. That's a very useful reference! I'll be printing that out and taking it with me to compare at the store.
Curious question then, looking at those two colors they seem darker than some of the other Olivgruns I've seen used. I'm attaching a link for visual reference.
http://armorama.com/forums/167290&page=1
So where does this shade of olivegrun fit in? is it just a personal preference or is it a legit option for olivgrun (or some close approximation)? I know personal preference plays a part with the individual, but it's also nice to be somewhere inside the accurate ballpark when selecting colors to use.
One of the 1st things I plan on doing when I get a new/bigger house is get an airbrush. We don't have basements down here in south florida and I'm in a townhouse so I don't have a garage. SWMBO will not approve the use of an airbrush in the house due to space issues
but it's on the short list of must haves once we get more space.Thanks for all your help.
Sean
scgatgbi
Joined: May 28, 2009
KitMaker: 285 posts
Armorama: 267 posts
Posted: Friday, November 19, 2010 - 02:07 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextWait a minute - Olivgrun is a completely different color from Field Grey. Olivgrun is part of the 3 color scheme and is a forest green, like Hunter Green. Field Grey is a grey-green for German uniforms and small equipment. It has no application on the outside of a panzer.
Just because it isnt labeled as "olive grun" doesn't mean it can't be used as one. To my eye, Field Grey has just the right amount of a blueish hue in it and, comparing it to wartime photos and restored vehicles, i think it is an excellent match.
Are you refering to the Tamiya Field Grey 2 in the rattle can or the regular Field Grey in the jar? I've got the rattle can version and it is a bit different than the jar version of field grey.
SSGToms
Joined: April 02, 2005
KitMaker: 3,608 posts
Armorama: 3,092 posts
Posted: Friday, November 19, 2010 - 05:25 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Curious question then, looking at those two colors they seem darker than some of the other Olivgruns I've seen used. I'm attaching a link for visual reference.
http://armorama.com/forums/167290&page=1
So where does this shade of olivegrun fit in? is it just a personal preference or is it a legit option for olivgrun (or some close approximation)? I know personal preference plays a part with the individual, but it's also nice to be somewhere inside the accurate ballpark when selecting colors to use.
That is a beautiful model, truly excellent work, but both of those colors are very light compared to original examples and data.
scgatgbi
Joined: May 28, 2009
KitMaker: 285 posts
Armorama: 267 posts
Posted: Friday, November 19, 2010 - 05:49 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextCurious question then, looking at those two colors they seem darker than some of the other Olivgruns I've seen used. I'm attaching a link for visual reference.
http://armorama.com/forums/167290&page=1
So where does this shade of olivegrun fit in? is it just a personal preference or is it a legit option for olivgrun (or some close approximation)? I know personal preference plays a part with the individual, but it's also nice to be somewhere inside the accurate ballpark when selecting colors to use.
That is a beautiful model, truly excellent work, but both of those colors are very light compared to original examples and data.
Yeah, I wish I could take credit for work like that. Would you say that it's closer to say PollyS German Dark Olive Green/German Light Olive Green? or do you have an idea on what was used to get that shade of green? I asked the poster, but no reply as of yet. I've never been the best at differentiating color.
Sean
SSGToms
Joined: April 02, 2005
KitMaker: 3,608 posts
Armorama: 3,092 posts
Posted: Friday, November 19, 2010 - 08:40 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextQuoted TextCurious question then, looking at those two colors they seem darker than some of the other Olivgruns I've seen used. I'm attaching a link for visual reference.
http://armorama.com/forums/167290&page=1
So where does this shade of olivegrun fit in? is it just a personal preference or is it a legit option for olivgrun (or some close approximation)? I know personal preference plays a part with the individual, but it's also nice to be somewhere inside the accurate ballpark when selecting colors to use.
That is a beautiful model, truly excellent work, but both of those colors are very light compared to original examples and data.
Yeah, I wish I could take credit for work like that. Would you say that it's closer to say PollyS German Dark Olive Green/German Light Olive Green? or do you have an idea on what was used to get that shade of green? I asked the poster, but no reply as of yet. I've never been the best at differentiating color.
Sean
Sorry Sean, but I don't own either of those Pollyscale paints, and I can't venture a guess as to what green is on that StuG.
scgatgbi
Joined: May 28, 2009
KitMaker: 285 posts
Armorama: 267 posts
Posted: Friday, November 19, 2010 - 08:46 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextQuoted TextQuoted TextCurious question then, looking at those two colors they seem darker than some of the other Olivgruns I've seen used. I'm attaching a link for visual reference.
http://armorama.com/forums/167290&page=1
So where does this shade of olivegrun fit in? is it just a personal preference or is it a legit option for olivgrun (or some close approximation)? I know personal preference plays a part with the individual, but it's also nice to be somewhere inside the accurate ballpark when selecting colors to use.
That is a beautiful model, truly excellent work, but both of those colors are very light compared to original examples and data.
Yeah, I wish I could take credit for work like that. Would you say that it's closer to say PollyS German Dark Olive Green/German Light Olive Green? or do you have an idea on what was used to get that shade of green? I asked the poster, but no reply as of yet. I've never been the best at differentiating color.
Sean
Sorry Sean, but I don't own either of those Pollyscale paints, and I can't venture a guess as to what green is on that StuG.
Matt,
Thanks for all your help.
Sean
SSGToms
Joined: April 02, 2005
KitMaker: 3,608 posts
Armorama: 3,092 posts
Posted: Friday, November 19, 2010 - 09:37 AM UTC
You are very welcome Sean, any time!
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