Hey Guys !

Reading all these different topics on the new available kits and upgrades for the Leo 2A6 CAN is getting somewhat out of hands.
As someone very keen on all new Leo 1+2 and M1 stuff I thought it was a good idea to share what news I found on a German website that PSM is offering this apparently, long awaited kit. Unique being the Barracuda-Camo, which someone has finally found a solution, enabling even less experienced modeller to tackle this vehicle. Reading all the previous topics on "Barraduca"-like camo, and ways to reproduce such always ended in not satisfactory results and with the plea to all the manufactures to make one !
So here comes the first decent option .... and what happens ?

Step 1:
People, like myself, that have never seen the kit first hand, all of a sudden know all about it !
Screws missing... Ubrella.... placed 2mm too foward ... saw a pic that looks differend.... this version wasn't in A-stan X-mas 2007....... and so on and on.... !
Me thinking, that this news may give fellow modellers some relief on the "Barracuda -front" ..... apparently wrong !

Step 2:
In "follow up" topics I get to read about all the kits and upgrades which might be on the market in the near future, they will be ...so much better .....so much cheaper..... best thing around..... almost heaven sent !!!!
Lots of talk to commercially push products which don't exist yet, aiming to discredit the kits availably.


Step 3:
Next round is ......everything is much too expensive.... why wasn't the "Tamiya" hull used ? ..... why can't HB do this ..... when will So&So bring this on the market .... can't afford to buy this .... can't afford to buy that ..... and so on !


Step 4:
Cromwell now offers another interesting option to the PSM kit, seeing the pics and hoping to get some further infos on ..how, what, when ... etc.
But beside the usual "Cromwell"-issues on "paid but not delivered" I get the same comments again to commercially push products which don't exist yet, aiming to discredit the another kit now available.


My distaste to all these topics , and my growing impression, is that some topics dealing with the Leo 2 are misused for commercial interests. !
To be very clear:
I am sick and tired of hearing about RM .... having this or that..... releasing this or that...... working on this or that..... and highjacking too many topics to advertise their products in existence or not !

Up to now I have not read of any similar approaches from other AM-Producers in this way or fashion.
Gordon Brown sadly is always on the defensive when answering to his products (service related), PSM, Storm Miniatures etc have never gotten involved in any such actions or similar statements.
For me it is too apparent that "Real Model" is using this forum too much to promote their products on behalf of others.

I am not interested in this any more !!!!
I am interested in the news, model/kit etc. announced in the topic !!!!
I do not want to be distracted by "commercially- completive" aimed replies any more !!!!!
And I know that I am not left alone with this impression !

Cheers
Christopher

Christopher,

WELL SAID.
Hats off to you.

Well, I can't comment on ANY of the technical issues whatsoever.

What I do consider fair, welcome and to be encouraged, is a manufacturer coming onto the Forums and defending or talking about their products.

The reality is, this is a commercial site, and RM are a comercial company. Recently, a lot of people were very happy when Masterbox decided to participate in the Forums - yes, talking about THEIR products...

If you are not interested in news of some companies, or opinions of experts who know these cars, it's your problem. Please do not read these posts and have peace of mind.
There are a lot of modellers who are interested in this. That is probably why there is this web site.
If you buy the cheapest or most expensive model, the best or worst, it's your problem and nobody can not speak to that.
Excuse my English is not good because it's not my native language.
Miloslav

Miloslav,

if you read my and the other comments more carefully, it is about "THEIR" products ..... not yours.
So if news or info of any company other than Real Model (yours) is put forward I am in that moment interested to see and read what "THEY" have to offer !
I will show interest in your products if they are issued and promoted separately or as a supplement, and not when you urge to promote many of your "near future" announcements.
Generally speaking: "Put your money were your mouth is !"
If you cannot offer a "Barracuda-kit" right now like Cromwell, PSM or Storm Min. and/or others, I would kindly suggest you produce your own kit and competitively join the options already available and let the potential customer decide.

Your quote on the Cromwell Leo Tread:

"How do you know how much will it cost Resin & PE Kit RM 35149/35150?
HB separately is not worth anything for a little advanced modelers.
Unfortunately, not one part of which belongs to CDN Leopard 2A6M equipment, not manufactured properly and must be either a remake or make a new one.
What is the total HB Leo PSM + + PE upgrade set detail set + Barracuda hundred?
Not just a weekend modellers, but also those who want to have an accurate model."

From the PSM tread:

"Great News.... unfortunately I started with the Tamiya Leopard with the Storm conversion set.....
Anyway, I can build two of them........ one with roller, one without
Marcel"

your answer:
"Marcel.
I think that cover Tamiya Leopard is no good. I plan barracuda for HB."

Comments like these imply your commercial interest on behalf of others, since they clearly DO NOT reflect your opinion as a modeller !!!
This is what I am talking about !

Cheers
Christopher

Christopher
If you do not know what they are talking so that nekomentujte.
Read it again, then it pochpíte. When one knows in advance what will become a kit from any company, so it's a laugh.
When I write, it is a pity to cover up: Tamiya minute detail, it is better to buy a set of PSM's opinion. If anyone asks me, it's probably because I already have a little experience with models of 43 years.
If it is better for you than HB Tamiya's your problem.
Miloslav

chris

Although I understand your sentiment, I do honestly feel that you are being a little unfair to Miloslav and real Model, who has helped out quite a few modellers here more than most, certainly when it comes to modern Canadian armour. It is only recently that the main stream manufacturers have began to produce modern armour and certainly Canadian items which may in fact have something to do with the popularity of his posts here.

From the posts I have read Miloslav has tried to point out possible corrections to the current kits and this has been done due to his own research and while producing his own corrections for Real model, I for one actually enjoy seeing the progress shots he does as he goes about correcting some of the mistakes found, also you have to take into account that English is not his first language so that what is written may not come across the same as a natural English writer.

The internet will always create debate and some subjects more than others we are lucky that we have such knowledgeable people who use our forum on a regular basis.

cheers

Keith

Thanks Keith.
Miloslav

I really don't see what the big deal is, when I was in my teens I always wanted to build a Canadian tank, APC, or some other kind of AFV used by the CF. And it's only been recently that I have been able to do that without scratchbuilding or trying to simulate CF equipment. I also like RM's books about the various CF vehicles it's nice to see some publications about something that belongs to Canada in a sea of books about American, Japanese, and German WWII content. In other words keep up the good work Miloslav!

Thanks Bertie.
Miloslav

Perhaps this is not known to some users but you can hide posts from users you find objectionable by using the "Hide User" button in their post detail area.

I would think that would solve a complaint like this pretty easily no matter what the rationale is for not liking a particular users posts.

Jim

i agree with you all the way i like news about products i have bought ths psm leopard kit it looks good and i hope i can do it justice at least i know it will get here

hey ba-BING! problem solved. 'Hide user' button.

Keep me in the loop on CF conversion products please!! And good accurate base styrene models too! One o'these days I'ma gonna pick up that Trumpeter LAV III... once the stash gets down! lol

Jim !

you will find me somewhat astonished ..... "Hide User" button ..... is that it ?
Again, it is not about tech. expertise or additional insight. It is not about helping others with profound info or tips.
What I am talking about is, in some very obvious cases, promoting his products to "downscale" the product dealt with in the topic.
My topic is about the Leo 2A6 CAN nothing else, and Miloslav has not been able to produced any else but announcements on future releases.
If he can produce some kind of product matching this topic, with some evidence exceeding the boxart of future releases, then I as a customer have some ground to make a decision.
But in this particular case it not more than gossip !
And gossip it not the reason why I have join this forum.
And yes, I do read RM topics and reviews on his products, I have even purchased some, but I still dislike these "distractions" on competing products, especially when, in this case, has been beaten by others in terms of timing.
And I would also oppose similar actions by others if this was a RM product topic.

If ARMORAMA is a "commercial" site, then I also don't think it is a good idea of letting producers "hack" away on each other, not the best way of advertisement.

Besides the PSM Leo being out about a week, the Cromwell just being announced, so how "solid" can all this input and other contributions be when hardly anyone has seen or got the kits yet ?

Cheers
Christopher

Well,
I think the point Chris is trying to make is that RM products shouldn't be advertised in a PSM related thread.
especially not as they do apparently not yet exist...
anyway I think they could be suggested (not advertised) as an alternative to existing sets once they become available and moreover once you can take it for granted that these would depict an improvement over the PSM, Cromwell or what so ever sets... apart of the comercial side isn't that the main purpose for sites like AR or ML?

Other than that I think Chris is absolutely right when saying that up to now there have been more "blind complaints" about a kit (which was feverishly awaited and no one has yet held in hands) than reasonable criticism due to proven facts. to be a little more precise what if that god-frickin' umbrella mount is a seperate piece and was just placed wrong on the sample model shown on the PSM site? there wouldn't be a single good reason to complain about, eh? apart of that isn't the real innovation the overall cudda-netting? wasn't that accurately reproduced(besides those two millimeters on the shadow camo)?
Anyway we are modellers, detailing stuff is our business. I think everybody who can afford those 80-something bucks should have the money to get a hobby knive and some sand-paper so he can correct that...

As far as RM goes I do not believe that Chris' statements were to be taken as personally offensive towards Milo. It's all about business policy here. though one might ask why anyone would need a third version of a barracuda netted leo (they are to be substituted with new A4 variants, right?) I think it's only right to leave it to the customers to decide which kit to buy, or not... the more the merrier...


Cheers, Max

P.S. get rid of the leo confusion, build more Abrams'!!!

I do not understand. I just said Marcelo, I want to put the Barracuda on HB Leo.
In another post I wrote that I like the set of PSM and buying it, I also wrote that I had a similar idea, but many modelers here and on the Canadian forum that talked to me because it was expensive kit.
I announced a set of CDN Leopard a year ago. There are modelers who are interested in what I prepare.

...... I also wrote that I had a similar idea, but many modelers here and on the Canadian forum that talked to me because it was expensive kit.
I announced a set of CDN Leopard a year ago. There are modelers who are interested in what I prepare. [/quote]

Milosav,

thankx for confirming my point of view !

Cheers
Christopher

Christopher, I understand where you are coming from. Yet on the other hand, I want to know about future releases too. I don't want to spend $100 on kit "x" today, if there is a potentially better solution for kit "y".

Ie, if Bronco had not announced a 40mm Bofors, i probably would have launched on the Italeri version. Granted, i did not find out about the bronco kit in a thread devoted to the italeri version, which I guess is your side of the coin.

Graeme,

I read you

If Italeri announces a 40mm Bofors, would you also find out about the one if Bronco appointed it in a own, separate topic ?
Pointing out alternatives or supplements for a kit is always very helpful !
Either which way, you need a product first !

Cheers
Christopher

Yes... that's it. Perhaps someone as apparently detailed oriented as yourself hasn't grabbed a basic premise. What you are describing are ethical or even online etiquette issues. There is no forum rule broken here.

We don't tell people what posts they can and can't post in. We don't have rules about people posting downscales on items (whatever that is).

I am in the middle of returning from being with family due to a death of a close family member. Perhaps I just have a bit more clarity in terms of what's important right now, but your post is not even a far off blip on my radar screen. In short... you are wasting your breath on this topic and I think if the silent masses weighed in, they would agree.

Jim

PS: And yes this is a commercial site. We have close to 50 paying advertisers. They pay us in cash (not kits).