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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Recommending guns 4 a CANADIAN armored train
DUKWsinarow
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: October 08, 2007
KitMaker: 124 posts
Armorama: 100 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 20, 2010 - 09:49 AM UTC
In addition to military vehicles, I also enjoy building S-scale (1:64th scale) model trains. When I want to combine these two hobbies, I can build 1:72 military vehicles and integrate these with the trains. One great example of this is a model of an M1977CBT and Mk2CSB which I placed onto a scratch-built OTTX flatcar (all three models are based on a single picture of a flatcar loaded in this manner).

I recently stumbled upon pictures of a Canadian National armored train that defended the Canadian National line that ran along the Skeena River to the Port of Prince Rupert where US military equipment was loaded onto ships for transport to bases in Alaska.

http://www.oil-electric.com/2009/04/port-townsend-today.html

http://www.mhs.mb.ca/docs/mb_history/19/armoredtrain.shtml

I’m currently assessing the feasibility of constructing this model and was wondering if anyone could suggest 1:72 scale models I could use to create the Bofors, 75mm guns, and searchlights.

I already have some ideas for some of these pieces of equipment but wanted to know if there are better options available.

The Bofors;

http://www.hobbywarehouse.com/model-ground-vehicles/heavy-artillery/ARX02314-1-72-Bofors-Gun-Tractor

The 75mm guns, removed from the halftrack models;

http://www.militarymodelling.com/news/article.asp?a=5684

Since US and Canadian railroad equipment is constructed to the same standards, namely the same rail gauge, coupler types, etc., it is regularly exchanged across the border, making it possible to operate this Canadian train on my US layout, even if the prototype never actually operated outside of Canada.



Before learning of this Canadian armored train, I was toying with the idea of constructing a 1:72 model of the K-5 11 inch rail gun “Leopold”, equipping it with “S”-scale wheel sets, and putting a 1:72 German heavy flatcar, also equipped with ‘S’-scale wheels, behind the rail gun. I’d then place a sign on the flatcar stating that the gun has recently undergone maintenance and requesting donations for the US Army Ordinance Museum, where the real gun is currently displayed.
DT61
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: September 18, 2005
KitMaker: 1,226 posts
Armorama: 819 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 20, 2010 - 11:14 AM UTC
Great to learn about this piece of obsecure Canadian Armoured Train history. Thanks for sharing.

Darryl
goldnova72
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: February 21, 2009
KitMaker: 627 posts
Armorama: 592 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 20, 2010 - 01:15 PM UTC
The Airfix 40mm look ok , but the 75mm guns on the train have a recoil cylinder over the barrel , the half track mounted guns don't . They also look to be longer than the train guns . A little kit bash / scratch building may need to be done to build the 75s ..
Since Canada had mostly British guns after the Great War I thought I'ld check out what they had in this , or closest too this calibre .
The closest gun I can find that looks like the 75 mm on the train is a QF 13 pounder ,6 cwt AA gun ( 1915 ) It was a 3 inch / 76.2 mm calibre gun , so it might get called a 75 by some. This gun was updated a couple of times during and after WW1 so it might be the mystery gun on the train . Wikipedia quotes " performance of gun was poor ", so that .matches what train article says .Hope this helps , Jim
gmat5037
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Hawaii, United States
Joined: November 24, 2008
KitMaker: 103 posts
Armorama: 102 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 20, 2010 - 02:22 PM UTC
I believe that the 75mm gun may be an ex-US 75mm M1917 gun, on a pedestal mount, which was a copy of the old British 18 pounder but adapted to fire standard US 75mm rounds. It is hard to make out but note the horizontal slide on the side of the barrel of the gun in the close up photo and compare it with photos of the M1917. Emhar makes one in 1/72, I believe. The US supplied three types of 75mm guns to Britain right after Dunkirk. The three different 75mm field guns in were from WWI, and the designs were French, (M1897) British, (M1917) and US. (M1916) The 75mm Halftrack uses the French type. The British type was used in action in the Philippines, as well as serving in Hawaii and CONUS. The US design was not very good.
In England, a number of M1917 guns, in British nomenclature Ord. QF, 75mm Converted Mk 1, were removed from their original carriages and fitted to Mounting 75mm Mk 1 in late 1940 and became a coastal artillery equipment. It would be used for beach defense.
If it is called a 75mm gun rather than an 18 pounder gun, that would point towards a US origin. The mount could be the British type or a local design.
Info, save the last comment, gleaned from Ian Hogg's British and American Artillery of WWII.

Best wishes,
Grant
DUKWsinarow
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: October 08, 2007
KitMaker: 124 posts
Armorama: 100 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 27, 2010 - 02:07 AM UTC
Grant,

Thank you for the information on the gun.

Just to make sure, this is the gun you were talking about, correct?;

http://www.michtoy.com/item-EMH-7202-British_Artillery.html

Would you know where I could find pictures of the “British type” mount you mentioned? Since I can’t find a clear shot of the mount, I’m going to assume that it’s of the British design since the Canadians seem to have preferred British equipment during WWII.

If it’s not asking too much, I was wondering if you could look at these two models of 40mm Borfors and tell me which one you think would allow me to make the closest, and most detailed, approximation of the Bofors on the prototype. Also, if you know of a better 1.72 model of a Bofors, I’d definitely be interested to hear about it.

http://www.mbmmodels.com/1-72/mbm1-72/mbm-wespe/wes72043.htm

http://www.hobbywarehouse.com/model-ground-vehicles/heavy-artillery/ARX02314-1-72-Bofors-Gun-Tractor

Finally, while I know where to find the chunky HO and American Flyer spotlights, I was wondering if you knew of any better 1:72 scale spotlights that could serve as the spotlights on this train.

Thank you in again for your help.
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