I'm getting closer to the point where I have to decide on the markings on my M923A1 truck model. It will be built in the following configuration:
- no canvas cover on the cargo bay,
- no canvas roof on the cab,
- M2 .50 gun mount instaled over the cab,
- NATO 3-color scheme.

Now I wonder what markings could I use for such truck?
I would prefer to build USAREUR vehicle, but I don't know if it is likely that vehicle configured this way could be seen in Europe (gun and open cab). I have some photos of vehicles in this configuration, but markings are not clear. Like this one:

This seems to be USMC vehicle however (any idea where and when this photo was taken?...). I prefer US Army markings, as Marines use their "USMC xxxxxxx" numbers on the engine hood and paint them in camouflage colors contrasting to the background color (e.g. black on green and green on black) - it looks nice, but I can only print black decals, so I wouldn't be able to create such markings.

I have already printed following markings as a test: "1^1CAV1 A-311". Is this an USAEUR unit? Is it possible that a truck could carry this number? And is it likely that the vehicle from this unit would be used in configuration as in my model?

Wow, awful lot of questions in one post

Rgds,
Pawel

It should be a USAREUR unit, I'm not sure if 1-1 CAV is 1st AD's divisional cavalry squadron though. The bumper number "A-311" is ficticious when used with the CAV designation. The Alpha Troop of a divisional cav squadron would not have a 3-digit numbered vehicle nor would it have a 5 ton truck. These types of vehicles are found in the headquarters and headquarters company/troop/battery (HHC/HHT/HHB) of combat units such as armor, infantry, or field artillery.

This configuration would be unlikely in USAREUR. Since the Wall came down, they generally frown upon having gung ho trucks traveling through towns. Besides, the weather normally is such that canvas is a must during most months in Germany. it could be a USAREUR-based unit that deployed to the Gulf though. Many vehicles are not being repainted sand prior to deployment.

Thanks for help, Rob!

As my truck is A1 variant, would it be suitable for ODS? I believe A1's are no longer used now, so it cannot be OIF vehicle, am I right? If this is true then it is a pity as I'm sure there are many similarly configured trucks used in convoys in Iraq now.

What about Op. Restore Hope? Were there any US Army (not necessarily USAREUR) units using these trucks in Somalia? I think the photo of USMC truck I posted earlier is from Somalia, but I cannot be sure.

If I make my truck an ODS or ORH vehicle, could you suggest some unit/markings?

By the way - could you please explain what white handmade markings like "xxxGEDAxxxxx" on vehicles mean? I saw them on many vehicles including M939 trucks, but have no idea what they are.

Best Regards,
Pawel

I've seen pictures of 5 tons in OIF in this configuration, so that might be a possiblitly.

I've also seen such photos, but these were either M939 or M939A2 trucks, not M939A1's

Rgds,
Pawel

M9239A1's are still used in curent operations in Iraq. Just got back from there myself with 3ID. The vehicles we drew from prepo stocks were all sand. However, many units who brought their own equipment from Europe or had to draw equipment that was sent from Europe were left 3-color nato camo.

Hey Vodnik,

First, if you can positively ID M939' s and M939A2's , then there HAVE to be A1's out there. There would be no reason I know of to remove only one version of the truck from service with a earlier mod still in use.

next, check out my pics of my build of the kit:

http://members.tripod.com/saammodels/Pictures/awards/m923/index.htm

The marking are taken directly from my National Guard unit vehicle from 1995 or so. I know that the HQ marking was changed to HHB at a later date. As for modern markings, for 3rd ID, OIF you could have 3-2-64 (3rd ID, 2nd Brigade, 64th Bttn.) and then HHT 101 or something. Do you concure Rob?

I agree that the A1, A2 or A0 would all be intermixed, even within the same unit. Your bumber number marking is off. Divisional markings don't include the brigade number, unless it is a HHC brigade vehicle. 3-2-64 would read 3ID, 2 Battalion, 64th Regiment or more commonly read as 2-64 Infantry (just an example, don't know if this is a real unit)

well, the pics I went from for the M1A1HA I did a while back were of a 2-64 vehicle, I assumed 2BD -64th Reg....but if you say it is 2nd Bttn, 64th Reg, I belive you...I was artillery, not armor, and guard to boot, so things are/were/shall forever be different.

I would imagine that a M939 would read, for the armor unit above, 3 - 2 - 64 on one side and something like HHT 101 on the other...?

Then it would read 2 Battalion, 64th Armor Regiment. The bumper marking would look like 3-2Δ64 or 3-2-64Δ. I've been in several armor battalions and I've seen the Δ in both places, normally painted solid black (easier to cut a stencil that way). When I was in 8th ID(M), we always had the capital letter "I" after the 8 so it looked like "81" or "8I".

BTW, I don't think I've ever seen an M939, just the standard M923 cargo, M925 cargo w/winch, M931 tractor, M932 tractor w/winch, and whatever nomenclature the 5 ton expando van and dump trucks are. I think the 939 is the basic chassis.

Thanks a lot for all the suggestions!

In the meantime I've found several more photos from the same Marines operation as the photo I posted earlier. It appears that this shot was taken in 1991 during the Operation Provide Comfort in Kurdish northern Iraq. Marines used many trucks in this exact configration there and they were all M939A1 family (M923A1's and M925A1a). I decided to try to finish my model in Marines markings after all. I checked that I only need to find a way to make five forest green digits of USMC registration number - all other letters and digits were black, so I can easily print them.

Other interesting thing, visible also on the posted photo, is that Marines use slightly different brown colors than usual NATO brown on some of their vehicles. It is more like dark sand / light earth color. I have a few photos where this camouflage can be seen and there are also some good photos in Concord book about Humvees, that show one USMC vehicle in Turkey painted the same way.


Sabot - did you see my question about white handmade markings (xxxGEDAxxxx and similar) in one of my posts above? Could you tell us something about their meaning?


Rgds,
Pawel

Sounds like convoy markings. We used to have to write them in chalk on the side of vehicles with the convoy serial number. Not sure though unless I saw them myself.

Rob,
I could not find any photos of vehicles with these markings on my computer - I have many of them in various books, but I'm too lazy to scan them now But Italeri like to put these markings on their models - below is the box art from their M923A1 model that shows example of these markings:


Rgds,
Pawel

Yes, the chalk markings on the door are temporary convoy serial numbers. I have an Italeri M163A1 Vulcan ADA gun that comes with similar markings. These are used to identify various vehicles that are traveling in Germany (unsure about the rest of USAREUR, only traveled in convoy in Germany).

The serial number is to prove that the vehicles running in a convoy are cleared with the military transport hierachy and the German government. You could infiltrate small groups of 2-4 vehicles, but major convoys required clearance (like a tank battalion moving from Grafenwohr to Hohenfels). They were put on with ordinary chalk used in classrooms and all vehicles in the convoy had the same number. Wiped off with your bare hand or a damp rag when the convoy was complete. Sometimes a lazy crew would just leave them on until someone told them to remove it.

Used for administrative convoys and not for tactical convoys. For example, vehicles leaving their home station and going to a staging area for REFORGER or Caravan Guard would have convoy markings. Vehicles moving tactically during these exercises would not use them, even if they were in convoy formation on the autobahn.

Yes, I've driven on the autobahn in a tank. Much fun.

Rob,

Thanks a lot for the explanation! It is clear for me now, and once again it is obvious that Italeri made a mistake as they claim that markings shown on the box art of M923A1 are from ODS from Saudi Arabia...

Rgds,
Pawel

It is entirely possible that the unit placed these markings on the vehicle in Germany. Convoyed the vehicle to the port (wheels usually convoy, tracked vehicles get railloaded). Shipped the vehicle to the Gulf and off loaded the vehicle onto Saudi Arabia with the convoy markings still applied.

When they load the ship, the stevedores pack those vehicles in like sardines. Doubtful the stevedores would take time to remove the markings, and the soldiers who convoyed the vehicles to port probably just parked them in a staging area, and got on a bus for home station. A limited number of soldiers will remain with the equipment on the ship. They are called supercargoes and are mainly for moving equipment the stevedores wouldn't be able to operate like tanks, M88s, etc. and to do quick repairs in case something won't start.

I saw several ships being loaded with tanks and softskin vehicles at the port of Antwerp at two occasions : A reforger exercise (1992?) and the buildup of Desert Storm. Literally thousands of vehilces that were in store (or in use) in Germany. I don't remember seeing a single vehicle painted in desert colours. Most were in four-colour European forest scheme (a few had fancy bright green mixed in as one on the colours - I still have pics of that) or in newer NATO three-tone.
I think ALL M923's were in three tone scheme.

[quote]Sabot - did you see my question about white handmade markings (xxxGEDAxxxx and similar) in one of my posts above? Could you tell us something about their meaning?

At the same occasions I described above, all vehicles had handwritten white or yellow chalk references on their sides. These seemed loading references for the transport units : which vehicle belongs to which shipment and goes out on which sailing date. Could that be what you're looking for ?