I was wondering if there was a good 1/35 Patton kit in styrene out there somewhere?

I've read some ok stuff about the Tamiya and Dragon kits, but nobody really actually said anything about them, or about any of the other manufacturers offerings that are floating around out there.

Which one?

THe M46 Patton, M47 Patton or M48 Patton or the M60 Patton?

For the M46, it's Dragon
For the M47 it's Testors/Italeri
For the M48, it's Tamiya. Academy makes an M48H, though, which was only used by Korea.
The M60,it's Tamiya or Italeri

I've built all of them and the only one that I had any problems with was the M46. Some slight fit problems in the hull.
The Tamiya M48, well, you need to read the reviews on it. The suspension isn't quite right and it makes the vehicle stand too tall.

There are good and bad things about all of them, but you don't have much choice.

Steve

Yeah, I noticed. Although I can't say that I'm surprised at the lack of options...

I'm most keenly interested in the M48, but I'd be happy with any of them for the time being. Right now I'd be best off with the one that needed the least amount of work as I'm still developing my skills. Reading between the lines, it sounds like you would probably recommend the Tamiya M60 for me to start off with?

I built the Tamiya M60, and I liked it. Went togethyer pretty easily, enjoyed painting and weathering it. I'm no expert so I didn't even pay attention to how high the tank was suopposed to stand. There are a lot of interesting marking options for these widely-used tanks. The plastic turret basket is very thick and clunky, and the M60 would benefit from an aftermarket replacement.

As far as I know the Tamiya M60 requires some work to get it accurate. The Italeri M47 is OK accuracy-wise and it's only major flaw is the flexibility of the tracks (there is an AFV-Club replacement which some think is awful to build, others think it's great). Apart from that, the earlier Italeri kits were a joy to build so with my limited knowledge on the subject I would probably recommend that one...

Cheers, and Merry Christmas!
Stefan

Lindberg offered the M46 Patton as a motorized kit in 1/32nd scale in the 1960's, and it has recently been reissued allegedly as a 1/35th scale kit. Avoid it--it's a toy (they also did the same subject in the odd scale of 1/64th)
A 1/35th scale M46 Patton has been offered by DML Dragon, and includes an optional searchlight for the mantlet. It was tooled in 1995, but the kit isn't bad. Tracks are individual link, but AFV Club offers better ones. Hopefully, it will resurface as a Cyber Hobby "Orange Box" kit with improved tracks before too long.
M47 was released by Italeri in 1977, and has also been boxed by Revell/Germany. A good kit for the period, though the grab handles are rather chunky. It does offer separate latch handles for the tool boxes, whereas most kits mold these as featureless blobs on the box lids. Cast armor needs to have a texture added, as it is glass smooth. Kit depicts a fairly late version, so some backdating would be needed for most US Army units (the late tanks mostly went to NATO users). Stiff vinyl tracks, but again, AFV Club has replacements.
M48A2 has only been offered by Monogram (reissued by Revell as a nostalgia item). Kit dates from 1957, and is very poor. Though sometimes labeled as 1/32nd, it is the same dimensionally as the Tamiya kit, except for the wheels, which have excessively thick tires. The engine deck and commander's hatch could be mated to a Tamiya M48A3, if you really wanted to depict one. It would require a lot of surgery and sheet plastic, though.
M48A3 has been offered by Tamiya since 1978, and an unlicensed clone of the kit was offered by Academy in the 1980's. It depicts one of the 1963 rebuilds based on the M48A1, but with the vision riser retrofitted to the cupola. It retains the five return rollers of the M48A1, and has the early style headlight assemblies. The vehicle Tamiya examined was apparently missing its engine, and was floating rather high (the forward wheel wasn't even on the ground, and Tamiya duplicates this on the kit). You'll need to lower the rest of the suspension arms to the same level as the front wheel. Turret and hull need some texture, and the bow is little blunt in shape.
M48A5 was offered by Academy, and is derivative of the Tamiya kit in many ways, so most of the same corrections apply, though the leading edge of the front armor has a better shape. It has the side skirts used by the South Korean Army, so you'll need to remove the mounting lip on the fenders if you want to depict a US vehicle. With some parts from an M48A3, it could also depict a late M48A3 from the 1968 batch of rebuilds, which had the three return rollers and late style headlight assemblies inherited from the M48A2. You would need the cupola and 90 mm gun, of course.
The M48H used only by the Republic of China (Taiwan) Army is available from AFV Club, and it reportedly mixes parts from M48 and M60 tanks to depict this rebuild version.
Tamiya's original M60A1 was mediocre, and dated from 1970, but they completely revised the turret around 1990 to depict the final casting type seen on new-build M60A3 and possibly late M60A1 tanks. The turret and associated parts are excellent, but the suspension and hull are still poor. It has also been offered as a USMC M60A1, with the steel wheels and reactive armor. Tracks have mispositioned center guides, but AFV Club has replacements.
Tamiya also offered the missile armed M60A2, which had the same poor lower hull. The turret was based more on the M60A1E1 development prototype than the M60A2 production version, and some updates would be needed to make it accurate.
Academy's M60 kits are derived from Tamiya's and share most of the same faults, though the versions with reactive armor hide many of the detail shortcuts on the hull.
Esci offered a very good M60A1 and M60A3 kit, and these molds are now being used by Italeri and Revell/Germany. The only glitch is the gun, which has the inner half of a steel thermal shroud behind the bore evacuator, but no sleeve on the outer half (presumably an anomaly of the particular tank they measured). For an M60A3, the outer sleeve needs to be added from styrene tube and sheet, and for an M60A1, the inner sleeve needs to be sanded off (or an aftermarket barrel needs to be sourced). Esci's wheels depict the aluminum wheels that were standard from 1960 until 1980, and the tracks are decent styrene link and length style. Detail overall is superb, far better than the Tamiya/Academy efforts. Turret shell depicts one from the early to mid 1970's, which still had a light undercut at the three o'clock and nine o'clock positions at the turret ring (the revised Tamiya turret depicts the final casting style, which had a short vertical surface there). When boxed as an Israeli vehicle with the 1980's style "Blazer" reactive armor, the US cupola parts are not always included--at various times, these kits have appeared in Esci, Ertl, AMT, Italeri and Revell/Germany boxes, so there can be slight differences in the parts count.

Jeremy,

It all depends on which Patton version you want, but I can safely say you'll get great value from the Italeri M47 - it is arguably the best kit they made as far as completeness & accuracy go. You even get separate engine-deck louvred doors (with detail on the inside!) and an engine/gearbox tub that can be detailed up nicely. Read Gerald's tweaks, but don't let them put you off!

The other one I'm familiar with is the Revell M60A3, which started life as an old Esci mould. It is quite good, but will require a little attention due to the big mounting holes for tools, grabs, etc.

I've avoided the Tamiya-based kits of late (but I did have the M60A2 "starship" way back when it was new...) so cannot comment on them other than to warn that the early ones were designed around a motor & batteries so are dimensionally inaccurate.

Seasonal regards,

Tom

Academy does not make an M48H (that is an M48 turret mounted on an M60 series hull). AFV Club makes an M48H and that tank is used by Taiwan, and not Korea. That kit contains parts from both Academy and AFV Club.

Academy makes an M48A5 that was used by both the Koreans and the US Army (both active and reserve units).

Ironside also makes an M67 flametank based on the M48A2 tank. It includes a Korean copy of the Tamiya kit as the base vehicle.

This is great information guys, just the kind of insights I need. I will gladly go for the Esci/Italeri/Revell M60A1 or M60A3 for now if that's what you all feel would be the best kits.

Tom: I will definitely check out Gerald's list of tweaks for the M47. Do you have a link to them?

I'm hoping that in the not too distant future we will start seeing some newly tooled offerings of these and some other early cold war vehicles. Maybe then we will see a better M48?

Thanks again everyone and Happy Holidays and Happy New Years!

I think he was referring to the improvements I mentioned in my original post, but since you ask, here's a quick overview of how to improve Italeri's kit. I also neglected to mention the Renwal M47 in my kit overview. It dates from 1957 or so, and is in 1/32nd scale. Like the later Italeri kit, it includes an engine and transmission module as a one-piece insert, but in every other respect, it is inferior to Italeri's kit. It has been reissued in Revell/USA boxes, as well as Matchbox in the UK. Merry Christmas!

ITALERI M47 TWEAKS
Some general fixes are needed to improve the Italeri base kit, and some additional changes are needed if you want to depict a typical early US Army tank.
The Italeri kit depicts a late M47 which had a solid guard over the gunner's periscope, late style periscope guards on the drivers' hatches, and the beefed up stowage racks on the turret sides. It also has the very late pattern rubber chevron tracks (rendered in rather stiff vinyl), which had a simplified shape to the chevron which was less subject to damage. The handrails on the mudguard stowage boxes are quite thick, as are the sheet metal guards for the headlights.

BASIC IMPROVEMENTS
The kit depicts a later production model, and some were seen in US Army, Army Reserve, National Guard and USMC service in this configuration.
The handrails on the stowage boxes on the fenders need to be replaced with fine wire. You'll probably need to make a jig of some sort to make them all identical. Italeri molded rectangular trenches for the kit rails to sit in, and these need to be filled with styrene strip first.
You will need to texture the turret and the cast portions of the hull with Mr. Surfacer or something similar (Testors or Humbrol enamel paint thickened with talcum powder can work). Apply the texture medium and then stipple the surface with the bristles from a Testors nylon paint brush. Just stab the brush straight down and pull it up. This will create a pockmarked surface. You can always sand it down gently if the resulting pattern is too rough, and this will leave irregular flat surfaces and random pockmarks. Experiment a bit on scrap styrene first, and look at photos of preserved vehicles to see what it should look like. US castings were not usually as rough as Russian castings, but the M47 often had aggressive grinder work done on the joint area on the turret sides, which can be duplicated with a coarse file.
Casting numbers should also be added (again, preserved vehicles will show you where). Archer offers resin numbers and foundry logos on decal film that apply like decals, or you could use an X-acto chisel blade to slice numbers off the part sprues and glue them in place with liquid cement.
AFV Club offers the rubber chevron T84E1 23-inch tracks as workable (sort of) individual links (as kit 35037). These look much better than the vinyl tracks, and depict the original chevron shape, which had a little "dogleg" at the outermost points. Photos show that this little little square of rubber often broke off during turns, so the later track eliminated the last bend on the inside, making the rubber wider at that point, as shown in the Italeri kit. AFV Club links can be assembled without cement, but really need to be glued as soon as you can, as they will come apart with any handling. If the pins are too loose in the end connector holes, you can gently crimp the pin with a tweezer or small plier so it will fit more snugly.
The M47 was nearly always seen in service with a canvas weather cover over the mantlet that attached to the turret front. There is no aftermarket replacement available, so this will have to be made from tissue and white glue or sculpted from epoxy putty (probably the better choice).

BACKDATING THE KIT
The tanks that were rushed to Europe during the Korean War (deemed the "real" front line in the battle against Communism), had distinctive early features, and I've included them here, if you want to depict one of these.
On early M47's, the guard on the gunner's periscope should be welded from heavy wire stock, like the guards on the smaller periscopes, but taller and wider. There is no aftermarket version, so you'd have to make one from wire and either solder or superglue it together. The guards on the small periscopes are the type seen on World War Two tanks, so standard photoetch items either from a Sherman, Pershing, or Eduard's M47 photoetch set will work (more on that later). You could also grab the finely molded plastic ones from the newest Dragon Shermans (included in some of the early Sherman kits that don't strictly need them).
The stowage rails on the turret sides are simple U-shaped items bent from steel rod, so again, these need to bent from florist's wire or something similar and super glued in place. Similar racks are seen on contemporary M41 Light Tanks.
Nearly all the early tanks received the upgraded solid persicope guards on the turret top eventually, though most did not receive the later style turret side racks, so tanks with mixed features could also be seen (and this is also seen on several preserved M47's in museums). If you don't feel like soldering the early type, you could just depict "your" tank a bit later in its career.
The pilot models used the same muzzle brake as the M46, but production models nearly all used the cylindrical muzzle brake. Near the end of the 1950's, a T-shaped muzzle brake became available, but it was never common on the M47. All three are included as options in the kit, a nice touch.

EDUARD'S UPDATE
Eduard recently offered a photoetch set which was poorly designed. It has a mixed batch of early and late parts on the same fret, so no one tank can be modeled correctly using Eduard's parts. It has early pattern (Sherman style) periscope guards, but does not include the matching early style guard for the gunner's periscope. Instead, it offers a brass replacement for the kit's perfectly acceptable styrene late style gunner's scope guard. If you want a late vehicle as depicted in the stock kit, you will have to refine or replace the kit's drivers' periscope guards, as the unique style seen on the M47 is duplicated nowhere else.
Eduard's designer wanted to save space on the brass fret, so instead of etching the handrails for the stowage boxes in profile, they depicted them as two-inch wide strap irons, etched flat and bent into shape, which fit the little trenches molded into Italeri's boxes, but are completely fictional, since the real handles are quarter inch steel rod. Back to the florist's wire.
The only really vital items on the fret are the headlight guards, which are a very odd shape in real life, and would be a real nuisance to duplicate (or the kit parts would have to be filed dangerously thin with an assortment of small files).
It also has the rectangular pioneer tool rack seen on most US vehicles of the time, and it is finer than the kit's styrene part. However, it is etched in metal as fine as foil, and must be bent with an bending brake of some sort (Etchmate or something similar). Pliers will make a hopelessly wobbly mess of it. The tools are secured with straps and buckles, included by Eduard, though you could possibly substitute the resin tools with straps offered by Formations.

The M47 was nearly always seen in service with a canvas weather cover over the mantlet that attached to the turret front. There is no aftermarket replacement available, so this will have to be made from tissue and white glue or sculpted from epoxy putty (probably the better choice).


A little correction here, there is a detail set made by Italian Kits that includes, among other things, the canvas cover [ref. IKA35004 M47 Patton detail set] :

http://www.italiankits.it/italiankitsarmor.html


Regards and Happy Christmas to all

Having built well over a dozen M60 kits of all manufacturers and types, I would ONLY recommend the Esci-AMT-Italeri-Revell kits, from a building perspective. Both Tamiya and Academy kits are much harder to build and deal with build issues.

In regards to the M60 series, I would say that what is really needed is a brand new, from scratch, multi-media kit. Trumpeter? DML?

Gerald,

It was indeed your earlier post I referred to, but your follow-up list is very welcome too! And I find that stippling Mr Surfacer is a great second career for old toothbrushes - I just trim the more "fly-away" nylon bristles down, and I don't feel cheated if they only survive a single build...

All this talk of M47s has me wanting to re-activate my most recent stalled build of a bundeswehr vehicle - maybe I'll chuck it into the Getter Done campaign! I was working on a full interior when it went into storage.

Merry Christmas to all!

Tom

Great timing on this thread. i just started the italeri m-47. I felt like i needed a change, i got the kit for cheap off of ebay cause it was missing one of the louvers engine covers. So i was looking at the italian kit thingy and it looks like it has the one i am missing. That or i could simply cast my own out of resin. Fun fun fun.

Either way i am looking at the mr surfacer and the track set. Thanks for all the info.

Someone on here mentioned a engine louver update set, any idea where i can find that?

Bill

Gerald: Wow, I was so focused on the replies that I wasn't quite paying attention to who was posting Much thanks for expanding on your previous list of improvements

Cesar: Much thanks for the link, looks like a nice detail set that would be very helpful when building an M47

Jacques: Thanks for dropping by, your insight is always welcome
I agree about a new tooling kit for the M60 series, would be nice to see new tooling kits for the M47 and M48's as well. Again Trumpeter, DML, and dare I say Bronco? Would welcome these subjects from any of you guys, hint-hint

Tom: Go for it! Would love to see your build finished!

Bill: I did a quick search and couldn't find anything yet. I'm guessing that it's something that has been out of production for some time. Any help on finding this guys?

Nice to know that the product exists, but their shipping rates are preposterous. I seriously doubt they have many customers outside of Italy. I think I'll continue to sculpt my own mantlet covers.

Thank you for the tweak list Gerald, most useful. Already bookmarked! I have the M47 in the stash and am already looking forward to building it!

Cheers!
Stefan

Jeremy, the M47 Patton has been in and out of production since the 1980s when it first came out. I bought it years ago in the old Testors/Italeri yellow box and again in the 1990s in the standard Italeri box. I think the most recent release came from Revell of Germany, but I did not see it listed on their site (revell.de).

Here is an eBay link to the Revell issue. From the auction description, it does not include US markings, just several European army versions.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Revell-1-35-03062-M47-Patton-/200482802614

I gotta chip in here about the Italeri M47. I just love this kit. I built it pretty much out of the box a couple years ago for a club OOB build. I didn't go through the tweaks, wanting a straighforward build, but I did do a few things to enhanse the look of the model. I added the texture to the hull & turret, including a nice coarse casting seam across the mould line on the turret and I sculpted a mantlet cover from epoxy putty. I made up the markings for a French tank of Operation Musketeer, the Suez invasion of 1956.

You can see the model here on Kitmaker in my gallery photos.

I definitely have to get another to really tart up.

Paul

Thanks guys, this is encouraging!