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jagdpanther kit evaluation
blaster76
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Posted: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 - 06:43 PM UTC
Been looking at doing another one or 2 JP kits. An early and late. One thing I am not too fond of is the individual links that most Dragon kits have, Now research has shown a great early kit from Dragon that has the Zim molded on as well as the single piece tracks. Are the Italerie or Revell offerings worth considering. How accuarate is the Tamiya?
vonHengest
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Posted: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 - 07:00 PM UTC
The Tamiya kit literally falls together, but I would seriously consider the early JP from Dragon. I don't know that you would be happy with the Italeri or Revell offerings.
GeraldOwens
Florida, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 - 08:42 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Been looking at doing another one or 2 JP kits. An early and late. One thing I am not too fond of is the individual links that most Dragon kits have, Now research has shown a great early kit from Dragon that has the Zim molded on as well as the single piece tracks. Are the Italerie or Revell offerings worth considering. How accuarate is the Tamiya?
The Italeri kit conflates roof details from early and late versions, and the grill in the heater tower on the left side of the engine deck is way down inside at the level of the original engine deck for some reason, so it must be sawed out and raised to the correct position. Tracks are nasty stiff vinyl, two sections per side instead of one, and must be heat welded together. Rim detail on the outer wheels is rather too pronounced, and many kits have sink holes in some of the wheel hubs, due to being removed from the mold before cooling sufficiently (a chronic Italeri problem in recent years). Not every kit is affected, but it's wise to look before buying.
Revell Germany reboxed the old Dragon Imperial Series Jagdpanther kits, which were the 1989-vintage Gunze Sangyo multimedia kits with the metal parts replaced by better plastic ones. Not too bad overall, but the roofline was a bit off in angle, and the old school link to link tracks lacked the lightening holes in the guide teeth. Those kits were released quite a while ago, so it's possible that Revell Germany may reissue the Italeri kit as well (if they have not done so already), since the two companies have an ongoing marketing agreement.
Tamiya's kit is a very good representation of a late model Jagdpanther (post-Zimmerit). It has soft plastic, glueable track, though it lacks the holes in the guide teeth (note: Tamiya's glueable soft plastic is very allergic to enamel or lacquer solvents, and must be painted and weathered with their acrylics only--otherwise, it will dry out and crumble, sometimes within days of exposure).
Seriously, though, the new Dragon Smart Kit is absolutely the best choice for your criteria. Tooling is first rate, state of the art. Dragon's soft DS plastic track (included only on the Early Jagdpanther with Zimmerit kit) is glueable, and I have not heard any horror stories about it disintegrating. And it has the holes for the guide teeth.
blaster76
Texas, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 - 09:54 PM UTC
Thanks for the great input. i had pretty much decided on the Dragon 6494 kit. I am seriosly considering the Tamiya late version as well now. I kind of want to avoid those weird individual tracks on the 6393 kit. Does Dragon perchance sell those DS tracks separately? I built that old Imperial kit a while back....while it was adeqauate for my needs at the time, i want a little more accuracy
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 - 10:33 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks for the great input. i had pretty much decided on the Dragon 6494 kit. I am seriosly considering the Tamiya late version as well now. I kind of want to avoid those weird individual tracks on the 6393 kit. Does Dragon perchance sell those DS tracks separately? I built that old Imperial kit a while back....while it was adeqauate for my needs at the time, i want a little more accuracy
Cyber Hobby (Dragon's boutique subsidiary) sells some of the DS band-type track sets separately. I know they've offered the early style Panther track. Not sure if the late type was offered yet or not.
panzerbob01
Louisiana, United States
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Posted: Thursday, January 27, 2011 - 03:06 AM UTC
Blaster;
By all means: Dragon JP with the zimm. Haven't built it yet, but I've pawed the kit over and a pal is doing it. It is COOL! Rich in detail, apparently fundamentally accurate, and that zimm coat is as good as it gets (and much better than any home job I've ever seen, and much much better than my efforts in that department).
As to those DS tracks... I know they are simpler to use than are the link sets, but... When I build a Panther (or Tigers, or Pz. III or Pz IV or 38(t) variants, for that matter), I ALWAYS go for those "wierd" link tracks! No better way to get that true "dead track" sags and droops look, as the real tracks were built exactly that way - pinned, "dead" links. IMO, DS tracks, no matter how nicely sculpted and detailed, simply don't do it, for these German "dead track" tanks, compared to those "magic tracks". In fact, Dragon having taken to using DS tracks in its zimmerited panzer kits has been a major turn-off to me, and possibly to others... But that's just my pref- and there's been many threads and posts entertaining this issue...!
Buy that JP and have FUN!
Bob
By all means: Dragon JP with the zimm. Haven't built it yet, but I've pawed the kit over and a pal is doing it. It is COOL! Rich in detail, apparently fundamentally accurate, and that zimm coat is as good as it gets (and much better than any home job I've ever seen, and much much better than my efforts in that department).
As to those DS tracks... I know they are simpler to use than are the link sets, but... When I build a Panther (or Tigers, or Pz. III or Pz IV or 38(t) variants, for that matter), I ALWAYS go for those "wierd" link tracks! No better way to get that true "dead track" sags and droops look, as the real tracks were built exactly that way - pinned, "dead" links. IMO, DS tracks, no matter how nicely sculpted and detailed, simply don't do it, for these German "dead track" tanks, compared to those "magic tracks". In fact, Dragon having taken to using DS tracks in its zimmerited panzer kits has been a major turn-off to me, and possibly to others... But that's just my pref- and there's been many threads and posts entertaining this issue...!
Buy that JP and have FUN!
Bob
badger66
Texas, United States
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Posted: Thursday, January 27, 2011 - 04:21 AM UTC
Dragon's late JP is a very good kit also
Kelley
Georgia, United States
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Posted: Thursday, January 27, 2011 - 04:58 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Been looking at doing another one or 2 JP kits. An early and late. One thing I am not too fond of is the individual links that most Dragon kits have, Now research has shown a great early kit from Dragon that has the Zim molded on as well as the single piece tracks. Are the Italerie or Revell offerings worth considering. How accuarate is the Tamiya?
One thing to keep in mind, the Dragon kits represent a 1rst generation-G1 Jagdpanther (yes, that includes the newest kits), while the Tamiya kit is a G2. The difference has to do with the rear deck and the angles of the superstructure. So to build a true late/final, you would be better off using the Tamiya kit. Even though it has now been around several years it's still a good solid kit. I wouldn't even bother with the Revell or Italerie kits myself.
Mike
mmeier
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Posted: Thursday, January 27, 2011 - 06:07 AM UTC
Tamiyas kit is a beauty. Fits like a glove. Eduard has a small etched set out that enhances some details but that is "borderline necessary" for this kit.
The tracks are only a "problem" if you build a version without side skirts, otherwise the upper track run is not visible.
The tracks are only a "problem" if you build a version without side skirts, otherwise the upper track run is not visible.
blaster76
Texas, United States
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Posted: Thursday, January 27, 2011 - 07:14 AM UTC
I got the early JP with the Zim (6494) off of Amazon. ($46.60 and free shipping) Was leaning towards the Tamiya late and i think Mike and MBR just pushed me over the edge. I have not had good luck with individual links. Seems when i get to the end, my measurements are off a tad, so a small gap is left. Just never ever seem to get it perfect. I heard the DS tracks glue down nicely so I can represent sag. I'll try to get another set and use them on the other kit when i get around to it. Anyone know where I can order the DS tracks?
panzerbob01
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Posted: Thursday, January 27, 2011 - 10:19 AM UTC
Blaster:
There's a useful "fix" for that infamous "1/2 link too short or long" problem with these Dragon Panthers; leave the idler swing-arm loose until after you have fitted your tracks and they have set. This allows you to apply or adjust track tension by re-positioning the idler.
When I build w/ link tracks (only way I go now-a-days), I always add on one or 2 extras onto the total run beyond what the instructions call for. I set up my track-runs with these extras on the bottom - ground side, where they are accessible. I glue them weakly so they can be easily snapped off. I glue my entire runs, and drape them over the in-place running gear to get my sags and droops, leaving the bottom ends loose. Let them dry completely. Pull them off and paint them. When I mount them final, I adjust my idler to close or widen that bottom gap as needed (the top run will have enough give and flex to allow slight adjustments and it already has its sag look from the drape-and-dry steps), and trim off extra link(s) to fit. Glue the ends together, and touch up the paint.
Bob
There's a useful "fix" for that infamous "1/2 link too short or long" problem with these Dragon Panthers; leave the idler swing-arm loose until after you have fitted your tracks and they have set. This allows you to apply or adjust track tension by re-positioning the idler.
When I build w/ link tracks (only way I go now-a-days), I always add on one or 2 extras onto the total run beyond what the instructions call for. I set up my track-runs with these extras on the bottom - ground side, where they are accessible. I glue them weakly so they can be easily snapped off. I glue my entire runs, and drape them over the in-place running gear to get my sags and droops, leaving the bottom ends loose. Let them dry completely. Pull them off and paint them. When I mount them final, I adjust my idler to close or widen that bottom gap as needed (the top run will have enough give and flex to allow slight adjustments and it already has its sag look from the drape-and-dry steps), and trim off extra link(s) to fit. Glue the ends together, and touch up the paint.
Bob
Tojo72
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Posted: Thursday, January 27, 2011 - 11:22 AM UTC
I have built 4 kits with the DS-tracks and I love them,but beware of enamel washes,they do cause them to brittle a little bit,not disintergate,but brittle.Try to use an acrylic wash to be safe.
GeraldOwens
Florida, United States
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Posted: Thursday, January 27, 2011 - 01:19 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I got the early JP with the Zim (6494) off of Amazon. ($46.60 and free shipping) Was leaning towards the Tamiya late and i think Mike and MBR just pushed me over the edge. I have not had good luck with individual links. Seems when i get to the end, my measurements are off a tad, so a small gap is left. Just never ever seem to get it perfect. I heard the DS tracks glue down nicely so I can represent sag. I'll try to get another set and use them on the other kit when i get around to it. Anyone know where I can order the DS tracks?
Dragon's Cyber Hobby accessory sets, including both Magic Track and DS soft plastic track, are available direct from Dragon USA at http://www.dragonusaonline.com/
Foreign buyers can order from cyber-hobby.com
blaster76
Texas, United States
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Posted: Thursday, January 27, 2011 - 06:37 PM UTC
I found the DS tracks at Sprue Bros. for $10 so I also threw in the late JP (6393) kit from Dragon for an additional $33.50 I am now flexible in the track regard. I will try Bob's method , and if it doesn't do the trick then I will have the DS as backup. I greatly appreciate all the info. GLad to hear about enamel on the DP will have to pick up a couple of acrylic colors to put a base on
vonHengest
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Posted: Thursday, January 27, 2011 - 07:03 PM UTC
Great choices, I think that you will really like the kits and I would suggest that you pick up the Tamiya JP as well sometime. Just buy another set of DS track for it if that's the type of track that you prefer. I prefer the individual or link-and-length styles of track, but the DS is nice too. It doesn't really matter what you go with as long as you are happy with it. Hope you choose to share your build(s) with us!
J
J