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Churchill CDL, in 1/35 scale...a project...
panzerserra
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Posted: Saturday, February 05, 2011 - 10:42 PM UTC
Well, Gents !!!

I decided to build this beast ...

This model is often cited, but was never seen or portrayed ... (It seems the Jagdtiger 88mm ...)

But what drove me to build this beast was the reports of colleagues on this topic last year:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47208/thread/1283858335/CDL+Churchill+actually+existed-

Again, the only pictographic evidence of the vehicle:

DISCUSSION ONLY - FONT: INTERNET

For this project, I decided to convert a turret CDL I had, from Verlinden, for the correct pattern (with the sloted top).

The turret Resicast is too expensive (in my opinion..) and I decided to recycle the material I had on hand ...

Using plasticard;


Thus, it is more fun ...


and...




After that, I made a silicone form and cast with polyurethane some turrets for my use, to correct old projects, like these:
Grant CDL:
BEFORE:


AFTER:



Matilda CDL:
BEFORE;


AFTER:



But back to the design of Churchill ...

According to reports cited in the previous link, the Churchill was seen at the end of the war, in a situation similar to that of Grants CDL.

Based on this, I decided to characterize the CDL turret in the late version, with dummie gun.

And, based on the cartoon, put some accessories typically in use in the Churchill´s turret, such as the back and side trunks.

To help me in the building, did a profile on 3 views of the investment project:



And start the contruction of this beast: AFV Club Churchill Mk III ( a very good kit...)with CDL "Panzerserra´s" turret:








Automotive primmer:


Archer casting marks decals AFTER the primmer ( I like it!):


Base color:


Ups and downs with green:


Well, time to mark my tank...

I thought of something like this:


I would be very wrong or I can imagine something like this was the real thing?

Awaiting reviews, which will be very welcome!!





Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Saturday, February 05, 2011 - 11:29 PM UTC
Outstanding scratch turret

I will glad to follow this your tread

Cheers
Dutchy3RTR
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Posted: Saturday, February 05, 2011 - 11:39 PM UTC
Another nice CDL project Marcos.

I like what you've done with the turret to correct it, nice work. I've gone with the standard Verlinden one on my builds and wish they'd got it right.

I hope you don't mind if I make an observation on the markings you want to use though:

As you know, 49 APCR were formed from 49 RTR to use the RAM Kangaroo. Although B Sqn were split off in early '45 to become "Independant CDL Sqn" they only ever used the Grant CDLs they had previously shipped back to UK as not needed in 1944, so your Churchill will need to be as used by their previous incarnation of 49 RTR in UK training in 1942/43. A safer bet might be 152 Regt RAC though as they were known to use Churchill.

This was when they were with 35th Army Tank Brigade and it should therefore carry the brown over green diablo rather than the 79 Armd Div markings.
My suggestion for the AOS would be 68 on brown for 152 Regt RAC but this is conjecture based on other Army Tk Bdes at the time as noone seems to be able to say for certain what it was.


Keep up the good work - you provide inspiration to me and no doubt a good few others.

Ken



(PS. There was no such thing as B Sqn, A Coy, 49 APCR - Sqns and Coys are and were effectively one and the same thing.)
AlanL
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Posted: Saturday, February 05, 2011 - 11:54 PM UTC
Hi Marcus,

Another great project, lovely work as always.

Al
panzerserra
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Posted: Sunday, February 06, 2011 - 12:44 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Another nice CDL project Marcos.
I like what you've done with the turret to correct it, nice work. I've gone with the standard Verlinden one on my builds and wish they'd got it right.
I hope you don't mind if I make an observation on the markings you want to use though:
As you know, 49 APCR were formed from 49 RTR to use the RAM Kangaroo. Although B Sqn were split off in early '45 to become "Independant CDL Sqn" they only ever used the Grant CDLs they had previously shipped back to UK as not needed in 1944, so your Churchill will need to be as used by their previous incarnation of 49 RTR in UK training in 1942/43. A safer bet might be 152 Regt RAC though as they were known to use Churchill.
This was when they were with 35th Army Tank Brigade and it should therefore carry the brown over green diablo rather than the 79 Armd Div markings.
My suggestion for the AOS would be 68 on brown for 152 Regt RAC but this is conjecture based on other Army Tk Bdes at the time as noone seems to be able to say for certain what it was.
Keep up the good work - you provide inspiration to me and no doubt a good few others.
Ken
(PS. There was no such thing as B Sqn, A Coy, 49 APCR - Sqns and Coys are and were effectively one and the same thing.)



Ken !!!

You fell from the sky ...

I'm more lost than a blind in shooting ....


English markings just confuse me ...

Is this what you wrote??


The historical reference is that Churchill was in Germany on 9th February 1945 near Kranenburg...

It´s correct, now???

Please, Help !!!!

panzerserra
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Posted: Sunday, February 06, 2011 - 12:53 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Marcus,
Another great project, lovely work as always.
Al



Thanks, Alan...

But I´m lost in the marks fo this Churchill...

The time and place is:

9th February, 1945, near Kranenburg, in Germany

The British marks are, for me, An Occult Science, worthy of the Wizards, that the uneducated people, like me, do not dominate !!!!!



eheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheh

Please, help !!!!

panzerserra
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Posted: Sunday, February 06, 2011 - 02:46 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Outstanding scratch turret
I will glad to follow this your tread
Cheers



Thanks, Mauro...

Big hug !!!
AlanL
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Posted: Sunday, February 06, 2011 - 03:28 AM UTC
Hi Marcus,

152 Regt RAC was part of 35th Tank Brigade and was transfered into 79th Armoured Division in April 1943. It provided CDT until it was transfered out of the Division in April 1944.

This link Might Help:

http://www.britishmilitaryhistory.co.uk/aqadmin/media/uploads/4b672a9bc9cf3_35%20Tank%20Brigade%20(1944-45).pdf

This means that it was left behind on the initial landings, so Ken's direction is the way yo go. Can't tell you if they were the Senior Reiment or not as information is a bit sparce, but it seems they were UK based for the main.

Your collection of CDLs is terrific.

Al

panzerserra
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Posted: Sunday, February 06, 2011 - 04:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Marcus,
152 Regt RAC was part of 35th Tank Brigade and was transfered into 79th Armoured Division in April 1943. It provided CDT until it was transfered out of the Division in April 1944.
This link Might Help:
http://www.britishmilitaryhistory.co.uk/aqadmin/media/uploads/4b672a9bc9cf3_35%20Tank%20Brigade%20(1944-45).pdf
This means that it was left behind on the initial landings, so Ken's direction is the way yo go. Can't tell you if they were the Senior Reiment or not as information is a bit sparce, but it seems they were UK based for the main.
Your collection of CDLs is terrific.
Al



Alan...

Then, according to the citation by Dick Taylor on Missing-lynx from a diary of a veteran who is located one Churchill CDL in February ,1945 in Germany, this should present the Churchill with 79th marks??

The Dick´s citation:

"Found a reference recently in the diary of a member of 86 Fd Regt RA, stating that Churchills with "searchlights" were used on 9th February 1945 near Kranenburg:

"A Churchill tank carrying a searchlight took up position in rear of our position and at night floodlit the area, pointing its beam over the town. With others in the neighbourhood it turned night into day and our gunners working on the guns were silhouetted against the night sky." "


The 35th Brigade had ceased to exist in 1945!

If... I wanted to represent the supposed Churchill in 1945, it should have the markings of the 79th?

it´s correct??!!
Dutchy3RTR
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Posted: Sunday, February 06, 2011 - 12:46 PM UTC
Marcos, I'd go with Dick's suggestion (that you didn't copy across) that the witnesses AFV recognition might not have been up to scratch. A Churchill CDL in NWE is very doubtful and it would most likely be a Grant. It was night time after all and he may have just supposed it was a Churchill having seen or heard of them in UK previously. He may even have trained with them illuminating for his Arty unit in 1942.

Given the choice, I'd stick with 152 Regt RAC as it's sure to have been more likely given the fact that 35 ATB were all training on CDL in UK in 1942. Even considering John Tapsell's comment about the 85mm turrets not being delivered, the 65mm ones fitted the Churchill as well as the Matilda and Grant.

Your second diagram is good with but one change: 152 Regt RAC would have been the second senior unit in 35th Tk Bde, the others being 151 Regt RAC (replaced during 1942 by 49 RTR) (most senior) and 155 Regt RAC (most junior), so the B Sqn marks need to be yellow, not red.

And I wholeheartedly agree with Alan - your collection of CDL's is superb.
panzerserra
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Posted: Sunday, February 06, 2011 - 08:27 PM UTC
Ken...

I agree ...

Let's stay with the more possible to be real.

I made a new draw with the new marks. I used the name Cyclops as a tribute, because that Churchill has only one eye!! (AFV decal)

Much much much thanks for the lesson and the explanations.

Without them, I'd be a dead end.

I thank all colleagues who helped

The final mark chart !!!




Now, I'll do my decals ...

Thanks, Gents !!!!!!

Dutchy3RTR
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Posted: Sunday, February 06, 2011 - 10:02 PM UTC
Spot on Marcos. (Just make sure you don't put the allied star on top of the turret. )
panzerserra
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Posted: Sunday, February 06, 2011 - 11:00 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Spot on Marcos. (Just make sure you don't put the allied star on top of the turret. )



I hear and obey, Pukka Sahib!!!!



Thanks, thanks and many thanks, Ken !!!

Thank you, once again for the patience ....

Stay tunning.. .Now : Correct British marks !!!




Tally Ho !!!
grievous
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Posted: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 09:33 AM UTC

Hi Marcos
Another superb conversion welldone ,is there any chance you may produce a few of them for sale , I'd certainly buy two off you
best regard,s G.B.Hartley
P.S will try and send you some pictures of C.I.R.D. mounted on a sherman that I have done



panzerserra
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Posted: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 06:49 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Hi Marcos
Another superb conversion welldone ,is there any chance you may produce a few of them for sale , I'd certainly buy two off you
best regard,s G.B.Hartley
P.S will try and send you some pictures of C.I.R.D. mounted on a sherman that I have done



Barry, thanks...
Sorry, but I'm just a weekend modeler... Selling products is a lot of responsibility ...

About Shermie CIRD, yes !!!

Please, send the pictures !!!

Sherman CIRD is one of my future projects !!!

All the best !!!

panzerserra
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Posted: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 - 05:24 AM UTC


Well, Gents... the new pics...

Transparent and white decals, after Laserjet´s run...



In the Girl !!!!




Rear view:


...and 3/4 ahead:


Now, the weathering...The Ford V3000 (in second layer...) is waiting this stage, too....

Stay tunning !!!!
Mano_BR
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Posted: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 - 05:36 AM UTC
Serra,

You are an evil man, only just saw this project, and at the end.



Dutchy3RTR
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Posted: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 - 05:43 AM UTC
I like it Marcos.

I like it a lot...


panzerserra
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Posted: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 - 07:54 AM UTC
Obrigado, Mano !!!!!
Nóis capota mais nun freia !!!

Ken, many, many tanks !!!
Your tips was awesome..

All th best, guys !!!



AlanL
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Posted: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 - 06:17 PM UTC
Hi Marcus,

Another gem

Excellent work.

Al
vonHengest
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Posted: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 - 06:33 PM UTC
I almost forgot how entertaining your blogs are, it's great to see that you're still at it
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 - 06:42 PM UTC
I like a lot indeed!

Congrats Marcos!
panzerserra
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Posted: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 - 07:10 PM UTC
Thanks, Gentlemen...In this weekend, more progress...

all the best to all !!!


panzerserra
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Posted: Saturday, February 19, 2011 - 08:31 AM UTC
Well, Gents, this is the end of this project...

One of those models that all books mentioning, but nobody has ever seen ... until
now!

The CDL Churchill is ready for combat!!!


I would like, again, to thank the colleagues who gave their opinions and especially Alan McNeilly and Ken Holland, who helped me in the marking of this rare tank ...

Muito obrigado !!!!!

The pictures:











And a view of my my CDL´s Collection:




Thanks, Lads !!!!


Painkiller
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Posted: Saturday, February 19, 2011 - 10:20 AM UTC
nice work!
never seen this type of turrent,
look cool and makes the tank even more special!
 _GOTOTOP