I am planning on making the old Tamiya Stug IV. I have the Jordi Rubio barrel, Eduard PE, Eduard Schurzen, Friulmodel sprockets and tracks, and Moskit exhaust. I am looking for references now on StuG IVs of SS Pz.Abt. 17 of the 17th SS Panze Grenadier Division "Gotz von Berlichingen" fighting in Normandy. I bought the Vanguard book on the StuG III and StuG IV, but it focuses almost primarily on the StuG III. There is only one actual photograph and a color plate of that photograph of a StuG IV. I ordered "Achtung Panzer #5: StuG III/IV" by Model Graphix Books from HobbyLink, but I have a feeling that they won't be able to get it.

My questions:

1) Does anyone know of any decent photos of StuG IVs in general on the web and ones in Normandy in particular?

2) Does anyone have any photos of StuG IVs in general and ones in Normandy in particular that they could scan a send to me?

3) Can anyone tell me what camo scheme StuG IVs of SS Pz.Abt. 17 would have been painted in?

4) Did StuG IVs of SS Pz.Abt. 17 have zimmerit coating or not?

Thanks

Adam,

Try
http://w1.183.telia.com/~u18313395/normandy/gerob/pzdiv/17sspgdiv.html

While this link does not provide specific markings and zimmerit answers, it does provide order of battle details for Götz von Berlichingen.

The best all around reference on the Stug has to Chris Leeman's amazingly thorough "Photofile" posted on Missing Lynx. These photofiles catalog as many references sources as possible. The images are pretty small, but the research is useful.

I would think that a Stug IV in Normandy would have zimmerit applied as the order to stop was not given until later in 1944. Probably, would have been waffle pattern.

Markings dark yellow or three tone camo.

I do have a few books on Normandy, including Panzers and the Battle of Normandy
and "Normandie" 1944... both of these books are listed in the Missing Links Photofile, so I could scan the image and send it to you some time in the next few days.

As far as the Achtung Panzer book.
http://tollehausbooks.com/mcart/index.cgi?ID=8QWLUY&task=show&cat=Model+Graphix+
He's got it in stock and at a good price.

Later,
Tim

Tim,

Thanks for the reply. I agree that the ML Photophile is good (that is how I found out that to do a StuG IV in Normandy it had to be from SS Pz.Abt. 17), but the pictures are too small to be of any good. You are probably right about the zimmerit and coloration. I was wondering if they had done any up in the "ambush" scheme for Normandy because I would like to try my hand at replicating that. I would greatly appreciate if you could scan those images for me and send them to [email protected].

I have a book, German WW2 Tanks in Color. A lot of pictures of restored and working vehicles as well as some original photos that are of a mediocre quality. I tend to think that the folks who go to the expense of stripping down a tank, rebuild/refurbish it and make it work again will try their utmost to make sure the markings, colors and patterns are correct. Again, I am assuming that after putting all that work and research into the project, that they wouldn't skimp on the paint job.

Sabot,

I don't get what you are trying to say.

Some people do not like to use refinished vehicles (or photos of them) as references for building models, museum pieces in particular.

Hi Aukvich, This is David from Track Link, So you are moving ahead on the Stug IV project? Can't wait to see it.... Big gun rules! :-)

Sabot,

I'm willing to use anything that I can find. My problem is that I can't seem to find much of anything. Do you know of any shots of StuG IVs in museums that are on the web?

Adam,
I think that anyone who has seriously tried to research the Stug IV has run into the same issues that you are describing.

I looked through all of my Normandy books, and, I found what may be a great inspiration for you. A FULL COLOR, SIDE PROFILE picture, not a painting, of a Stug IV in Normandy on or about June 13.

The book that contains the picture has not gotten very good reviews but, I bought and put in the bookcase and sort of forgot that I had it.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/books/0760306540/reader/1/103-7729447-1930253#reader-link

The picture shows pretty clearly that the Stug IV had "normal" pattern zimmerit, with horizontal lines applied reasonably uniformly and on all vertical surfaces. Other pictures in "Panzers and the Battle of Normandy" show that these vehicles carried the unit type marking on the front, driver's side fender and balkencruz on the side near the driver's hatch.
The camo scheme seems to be yellow with green no red brown.

I'll scan the shots that I did find and send you a note.

Now that I have done this stuff I might have to dig out that DML kit????
Later,
Tim

Tim,

I really appreciate your help. Those scans would be great.

Thanks

Hi Tim, I was curious as to hearing of bad reviews in regards to this book by Mark Bando.
I can not see why, and would absolutely disagree, because this
is one of the best books around that I have read about the historical accounts, & the action seen by 2nd Armored Div in W.W.II. The text is very accurate & straight forward, and
was well referenced & gathered by the author.
Would you know where I can find these bad reviews that you speak of ?
I'd really like to see them myself.
Here are some reviews that are more intune to this excellent book:
SCROLL DOWN WHEN PAGE COMES UP.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/books/0760306540/glance/104-9572769-9495126
Actually, anything written by Bando is well worth getting.
REGARDS,
- ralph

I didn't mean to "step on anyone's toes" by saying that I had read some bad reviews of this book. I remember that around the time that I bought the book, there were a couple of threads on Missing Lynx and possibly even on Track-link. Read the reviews on Amazon also... no one says that the book is horrible; however, there are issues. I would give the book three and a half out of five.

For example, the captions regarding photos of the German equipment are inconsistent in terms of accuracy. One example of this that sticks in my mind is a picture showing a couple of Panzer Grenadiers sitting on the ground next to an AFV. The book makes a point of identifying the vehicle as a Czech manufactured vehicle (i.e. Panzer 38(t)/Hetzer/Marder)... well, the vehicle in question is actually a Panzer II based vehicle which is of course not Czech... THe picture was of the Grenadiers, not of the road wheels... so why not give the reader some info about the camo tunics or helmet covers or perhaps identify the unit they belong to?

In addition, the book does not read very well. The lack of maps and continual references to things like road D13??? That's where the Stug IV is (I think) Hard for me to follow. The stitching together of anecdotal stories is a difficult task and the book does not succede in making synthesizing them into a bigger work. The book simply relates/retells the stories.

I bought the book for two reasons. First, because it tells the story from the point of view of the men who were there. Second, the book has a number of color pictures from the war.

Thanks,
Tim

i just got done building a stug kit the tamiya, kit # 3087 what a great kit i might build another one it went together nice

tazz -post a picture for us

hi tazz,
look for books specializing on ss panzer and panzergrenadiere divisions, to me that would be the best way to go. chris

Hi Tim, yes I would agree about this pic, and it's probably an Ausf C of the Pz Kpfw II series.
But I really wasn't referring to the pic's when I said the book was very good.
I bought it for the same reasons as you - The personal accounts. Which is mainly why I buy most books. - You just don't get a better W.W.II battlefield account, than by the men who were actually there in action.
- ralph

Hi Adam - I seen your post on ML.
When it comes down to James Blackwell, you can't get a better
person who knows German armor.
As a matter of fact, James is the authority on all thing's
W.W.II German, in my opinion. You can trust all his
reference's without question.
- ralph