Good afternoon, I'm working for the first time in 1/35 scale with a sand/clay base like in Iraq. I plan to use celluclay and craft paint to create same. I'm not really sure what color(s) to use for the main and highlights. I was thinking a sort of orangy tan and slightly darker color for highlights. Any help with this would be much appreciated. Thanks Pat

Check out "generation kill" on you tube for inspiration. Exact colours are not neccessary ... go with what looks/feels right to you. Use colours like sands, browns, yellows and greys and you can´t go so far wrong.
Sand and stones will not directly identify Iraq, so try and incorporate something to "say" Iraq on the base.

Any and every colour is almost acceptable in the range of sands and greys for colour. For every photo you find showing a colour I bet there's dozens more with an alternative. The problem being a desert base is not an identity as there is a whole belt of deserts that wrap around the globe near the equator, and most kind of have the same appearance.

To try and distinguish a specific desert from another is quite a challenge using natural features alone. Introducing man made elements however sends a clear signal as to the location, and also, the era. So without knowing more details of your diorama, I would suggest usng the well trodden technique of adding a road junction sign with names of cities pointing in verying directions, or milestone markers, or roadside shrines, or a culvert or a wadi or a goat herder or whatever to offer clues to the location (north africa sandy or stoney, middle east, Afghan stoney desert, Pakistan, eastern Europe, American deserts, Australian deserts, etc etc). There are alot of cheap accesories out there that make that bit real easy.

For your desert however, may I suggest some base materials to consider to use with the celluclay and paint? Please consider looking at kitty litter - the clay based stuff, not the shredded paper version or the clear gel version, but the good old fashioned sand coloured little pebbles that cost next to nothing for a few kilograms. This stuff can be ground down, so take enough to cover your desert scene, maybe make a few irregular piles or clumps (add some creativity and interest to the scene), and glue down with white glue in an atomiser mixed with water. then take a cup of the litter and grind it some in a pestal and mortar borrowed from the kitchen, sprinkle over the rough stuff, and repeat again and again with several grades of ground kitty litter each finer than the last. This should give a great texture base for your dio that represents what most deserts are in the world - stoney! And the best bit is the kitty litter is a natural light sand colour (usually - depends on the brand).

Alternatives to kitty litter include bbq fat absorber. Another medium I have been toying with, and this is pretty much experimental even for me at this stage ( but I have very high hopes for it), is the cold ash from BBQ kettle heat beads. Heat beads are that black coal like rocks used to cook roasts in BBQkettles or as heating fuel in outdoor patio braziers, the next day, the ash has cooled and is a new creamy colour with a fantastic irregular sandy texture ranging from gritty to super fine pastel dust. A beautiful colour for sure and very close to the cream/sand colour used on Gulf war 1 vehicles (desert storm) by the US.

If I was to offer a specific paint colour it would be Tamiya Buff mixed with Tamiya desert yellow. as the lightest of colours for overspraying dust effect ( reembering to carry that dust colour up the sides of your vehicle) But I would do a dark oil wash first to give depth and dimension to the "stone" effect.

Lastly, unless the desert sands of saudi arabia or something similar, there is always vegetation in a desert - grasses and weeds sporadically grow everywhere even the most inhospitable places. Consider how you will use their dispersion to change the colour of the base. Also consider that deserts can be grey in colour, stoney shale like afghan valleys is almost moonscape like! so not sandy colour at all.

I suggest that rather than define a colour it should be, find yourself a good picture of the type of desert you want to model, and just match it as close as you can. I dont think too many people witll criticise desert colour choice if you stick a reference pic up (unless you choose a red dust desert for somewhere that does'nt have red dust!)

good luck, I hope I havent overstepped my mark by offering so many opinions and suggestions, but I assume if you need to ask such a question to begin with then you are somewhere at the start of your journey in building experience in diorama modelling.

Adamskii

And definitely get the dvd set of generation kill - a must reference set for anyone interested in building iraqi dioramas - filmed in the middle east so shows quite authentic colours and landscapes.

Frank, thanks for the link. It will really give me some good detailing and coloring ideas. Much appreciated. Pat

Adam, your right that when it comes to this type of build I'm a real novice I have been following your build and am blown away by the detail you are able to incorporate. Your tips are VERY much appreciated, to have a few things to try with recommended colors is a really good starting point. The one point you made about doing the dark oil wash is the only thing I really did not get?? Doing most of my modeling in 1/87 MRR we tend to use an alcohol/ink combo whether in a black or brown combo. Is this along the lines of what you were suggesting??
I hope this is something that my son will enjoy, we are trying to replicate a scene from one of his video games so an exact copy is not critical just going for the "feel" of it. Thanks and any other thoughts or ideas are most welcome. Pat

oooh you said video games....

I hope its call of duty 4 modern warfare and a good proper desert scene like the map ambush, strike, or backlot.... niice ( i have spent HOURS walking these maps on my own in private wowing at the detail the modellers include in their buildings and layouts ... oh yes I have "borrowed" from their architecture too).

yes to the dark wash - that brown ink thing you suggest will do. any medium will basically do. the sequence would go something like this - all the landscape materials are secured and glued to the surface, then i would atomise white pva glue mixed with water in a trigger pump pack over the surface and let it dry at least a day - it will set rock hard and all those pabbles and dust will be hard - and very little will move (thats exactly what I did with my rubble in those buildings) then when dry, wash it with whatever method you like. i would use thinners and oil paints (black and burnt sienna) to apply a wash ( as I did with the rubble). Then if you have an airbrush I would dust a base colour over the top lightly (whatever desert colour you choose), and lastly I would 'drybrush with the basecoat and about 30% white mixed in to highlight to the top bits ( exactly the process i did in the diorama your watching). I do of course get lost in a cycle of wash/ dust/ drybrush as I try to touch up or improve something, but thats personal taste.

Anyways, good luck with your son and remember its all about having fun eh ? especially if accuracy isnt critical - then it can be really fun to let imagination run wild - especially if copying a video game - i always wanted to replicate something from call of duty - have the rag heads with rpgs on their backs run and gunning with someone "jump shoting" with a sniper rifle - claymores with the little laser lines hanging out, a bomb site for search and destroy with a dropped briefcase, someone teabaggig a body etc etc... lol.. well ya beat me too it so good luck !

adamskii

If we were to visit the open desert about ten miles from my house, you'd notice a distinct shade of pink to the terrain. The mountains that ring the valley look dark purple in the sunlight, gray at dawn and dusk. Rocks range from pink to tan to almost black.

Whatever vegetation is present is a shade of olive green.

Create the mood with colors, then add to it with those subtle hints that say "we aren't in Kansas anymore".

G

Hey Adam, thanks for the additional info. When you do your oil wash is it something very "watery" 95% thinner 5% paint ???? I have several tubes of Windsor Newton browns and tans will do some experimenting.
I have a ton polly scale and folkart paints, can they be used with oil washes?
Has anyone ever done a base how to, to get some ideas from?
The following is a link to a reference pic he gave maybe that will help in a color base/start.
Hope I got that right, thanks again Pat

hi , yes the oil wash is very thin, its a squirt of the oil paint into the jar ( maybe 15mm of oils from the tube) and then as much thiners as neeed to make it like dyed water. if the wash is too strog it will filter everything to a dark brown colour. if its too thin then It wont do anything - but at least you can do multiple thin washes or add more oils to darken it gradually.

I stay away from poly s paint - had a bad experience where I used it on a tank for some finishing weathering and it didnt dry.

The folkart paints are probably acrylics. most folk art paints are acrylic. difficult to use as a wash without leaving "tide" marks. but if they are oils, then use same as windsor and newton (which is what I use).

As for the pic - then basically you want a sandy/yellow hue, not peachy/ pinky hue. Avoid Tamiya(acrylic) dark yellow, but Tamiya desert yellow mixed with white be ok. or humbrol (enamel) number 93 mixed with white almost 50:50 makes a good colour for your pic. tamiya buff is good for dust coats. If you have access to mr aqueous hobby colour acrylics then number H85 "sail color" is a great desert sand colour. perhaps a good way to test if the colour is pinky or sandy, is if it could also be ised as a flesh tone then its the peachy pinky one that you dont want. I dont use valejo or some of the other brands so not sure of them. Just remember its real easy to be too dark by mistake. deserts are sun bleached and dusty as per your pic, and once the wash has dried, a good dust coat and solid dry brush will look pretty good for a quick finish.

As for the base - that a whole art form right there ! if construction is not your bag, the try loking for pre fab items that can be adapted. some people use picture frames with some success, but personally i have atrip to the harware store for some lumber and cornice moldings...

Adam

PS I dont recognise that game pic so am curious to know which its from

Wayne, thanks for adding your thoughts and info. I have googled some dirt roads from Iraq and have saved several for reference, I'm waiting for my son to bring me some kitty this morning to start some experiments. Pat

Adam, the screen capture is from Counter Strike, his favorite game. I have plenty of things to experiment with now, the tone seems to be more of a tan then gray.

My main question was really if I can use the oil finish over an acrylic base?

If your base has a structure or wall section added to it how do you make sure it is planted in the ground/dirt? I have in the past wrapped my structures with saran wrap and then added groundcover and glued it, once it starts to set a little I remove them.

The woodworking aspect is not a problem at all, that is my first hobby. I plan to use some really nice molding I've gotten off the jobsite(I'm an electrician by trade)

I truly appreciate all the help and I hope I'm not keeping you from your diorama?

Hi, sorry for the delay in answering.

Absolutely use oil washes over acrylic. thats the point because the solvent used to thin the oils wont attack the acrylic (unlike an enamel base that would "craze" or be rubbed off). Works very well.

As for planting the structure... in the past I have used 2 part epoxy adhesive (araldite). However plaster castings have a habit of only remain joined where the glue has penetrated. If you base is thick enough, and your building walls also thick enough, make dowells out of cocktail sticks or 2.5mm aluminium tube. Use lots of Aquadhere or pva woodwork glue as it penetrates the plaster better. Its a bit of a challenge lining dowels up and holes, but I think its the best way. most dio bases I think should be built on at least 10mm mdf, and 2 layers 20mm would be better.so pre drill into them where the wall or building will go and poke in some dowels of aluminium. they might poke out 20 mm but thats all the purchase it needs i think. the line the building/ wall over the top of them and gently push down to cause them to scratch/ indent the plaster. then invert building, predrill same diameter hole and test fit. When its all painted and ready, put some adhesive on the dowel and slide building over. For a woodworker that should be pretty elementary stuff so you should have no troubles!

The current diorama I am doing I have taken the approach of having each building glued to a 2mm mdf board so i can can work on the building like its on a pallette, and then at the end I will glue the board/palette to the top of the diorama ( You've seen the street) with araldite.

Hope that answers youe questions some.

lets see some pics soon hey

Adamskii

Pat,

I used Tamiya Desert yellow on this dio, you can always lighten it or darken it with some drybrushing.



Paul.

Adam, many thanks for all the help. So far I got the pavers carved out of foam and like how they look before any paint is applied. I'm thinking I'm leaning towards keeping them more of a Belgian block color and then maybe drybrush some of the tan from the "sand color" which I think will be more a gray than the tan in the inspiration pic. The castings have been started with the cleaning and now I want to add the section of the inspiration pic with the distinctive arch.
Haven't really figured how to create a wall section only 3/8" in thickness?? Any thoughts, might have to cast it in plaster and make a cut out the shape of the arch.

Paul, I think one of the main colors I'm considering is the Tamiya Desert yellow and am wondering in your dio there are many different shades I assume you have washed with gray/black?

Belg1960 -

For the groundwork on my dio, I put a base coat of Tamiya Desert Yellow, then sprayed with the airbrush with a quick burst of Tamiya earth and desert mix.... Just to create a different balance..

Having spent 33 months in Iraq, I can state that almost any imagineable shade of tan, from a greyish-tan to yellowish- and orange-tan, can be seen there. It depends on where you are. It would be hard to go wrong with any generic "tan" color for your base...and a selection of "tans" would be even better.

Ron