How did the skirts fall off German Tanks? I have included a picture of the rail to mount the skirt that has no teeth. There is no way to mount the skirts without welding. Did the rails and skirts just fall apart through combat use? Thanks in advance.



Here is the url to the image http://gallery.kitmaker.net/showphoto.php?photo=356449&cat=517

Actually I think the type in the picture were bolted to the rail (although I have read some were also welded). This method of attaching the schurtzen didn't last very long due to the fact that if a skirt got caught on something it tended to rip the whole or large part of the assembly off and not just the one skirt.

Roy

Its also my understanding that a some tank crews simply left them off after they had to do some work under that particular section.

Thanks all. Did the L brackets fall off/break off or the brackets on the skirts (or a little of both)?

Hi!

quote: "The reason I don't think they were bolted is because the same mounting systems were used for the mesh type of schurzen. And bolting probably wouldn't work very well on them."quote

Actually, Thoma mesh schurzen were attached in a very different manner than were any of the plate types -

Thoma schurzen were much lighter than any plate types. They typically mounted by hanging at the top from pipe racks or frames, which were, in turn, hung off of the tank hull using mounting brackets made from thin strapping similar to those seen to mount (bolt on) the turret schurzen.

The top of the schurzen panels had either a set of metal plates OR a thin metal-strapping "rib". These items were bolted thru the mesh to "capture" it in a 2-piece sandwich. On the tank side of these plates or rib were bolted or welded on sheet-metal hanging brackets which fit over the top of that pipe rack for to hang the panel. These hangers were like open-bottom box-sections. When the panel was hung off the pipe, pins were put thru the box - hangers beneath the pipe to retain the schurtzen in position.

Many, but not all, Thoma schurzen were also attached to the tank along the fender-line using another set of "sandwich plates" bolted thru the mesh and bolted to or hung on brackets bolted or welded onto the fender-edge. These attachments were either bolt-thru "squared-loop" brackets or small versions of triangular-tooth brackets similar to those seen on plate schurzen. IF using the tooth-type fender-hanger, the schurzen "sandwich plate" had a sheet-metal "loop" on the tank-side of the assembly which would fit over the tooth.

The top pipe rack and its strapping mounts, the top "rib" on the mesh panels, and one of these "fender-line" hanger sandwich-plate assemblies can all be seen in the Pz IV J pic Brian has provided.

Attached below FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES ONLY is another view I recently found in a Google search for "Thoma Schurzen". This also shows the pipe rack nicely, and also appears to have the fender-line attachment points (but you have to look closely, as the colouration is dark...).

Just for some fun and interest- I have also attached a couple pics of an E-10 I built on which I scratched some Thoma schurzen using the pipe rack, ribs, pinned box-hangers modeled after the real thing seen on Pz IV J and some StuG IV, etc. I added suspended triangular tooth hangers (no fenders to work from, so... Hey, it's a what-if...!), because my mesh was actually pretty flabby...

Hope this-all helps clarify on the Thoma schurzen!

Cheers!

Bob