I have a question about the method Matthew Toms posted for finishing armored kits. I manufacture small scale wargaming models, fairly simple pieces for use in wargaming. The vehicles I make are (so far) sci fi and what's called "NF" (near future) tanks and other AFVs. If you've ever seen those simple little 1/72 scale Russian WWII vehicles that come three to a box (forget the manufacturer) that's the sort of thing we are talking about -- they are vastly simplified, and details a bit thickened, so that they won't break over extended handling during wargames.

Anyway, I'm actually getting my hand back into painting, so that I can display buildups of upcoming models in my webstore. I have a NF Russian-inspired vehicle called the Red Banner tank, and like real Soviet/Russian tanks its appearance can be vastly altered by add-ons. Here's a preview of the kit I posted on a leading wargaming forum which shows all the alterations and how they change the shape of the vehicle:

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=214015

I'm finishing one up right now, and so that I might show all the variants, I an painting all the swappable pieces separately. I've just arrived at the second stage of Matthew's finishing process (actually I added one, I sprayed a lightened highlight coat over the base medium green coat as it looked too dark). Now I'm stuck.

What I want to do is build it up in the barest of bare bones, photograph that, add the first layer of add-on stuff (small turret basket and brick reactive armour), photograph it again, rip some of that stuff off (little turret basket and small band of turret reactive armour), add more stuff (big turret basket and larger turret reactive armour), photograph it, then finally rip some of that stuff off (bigger turret basket and cannon) and add the last batch of pieces (laser cannon, and the rear turret battery pack for it) and take the last batch of photos. So I get all the variants shown on one buildup.

But there are a lot of layers of finishing that go over a tank!

I'm concerned that there may be problems with the look of the finish, adhesion, and the staged dissembly based on the various steps in the armour finishing scheme. For instance, I want to use just a whisper of cyano glue to keep the pieces on, so that I can get them off later. Will the finish affect adhesion either way, making it impossible to stick -- or impossible to get off? I'm planning on painting all the loose pieces at the same time as the turret and hull, and so far so good, but when added to the kit will they look like a part of it?

Any pointers or hints on how to alter Matthews sequence would be greatly appreciated. I'm doing this partly because using 3-4 kits would be expensive (each vehicle kit costs me $7), but also because time is at a real premium for me -- this is the first model I've built in about five years, because the company takes so much of my time.

Kind of a weird question, sorry about that! But I thought some of you might have some pointers. Thanks.

K:

Hi.

Maybe the swappable bits, if they are at least modestly large-enough to see and handle, could be temp-attached to a painted tank using some artist's gummi-putty or other clay-like sticky stuff as used to temp-mount things during drafting and the like.

I use some yellow sticky putty I bought at the local HobbyLobby for temp-mounting wheels and stuff during painting of (1/35 scale) armour builds - it appears to be pretty safe for the acrylic paint finishes I have, as long as it's not left on too long... Maybe this would work for you.

Seems to me that you would want to fully-paint and weather the base-line vehicle, and then swap in and photo with various pre-painted and individually-weathered (or maybe non-painted? to show the optional bits better?) bits installed.

The one hassle I see is, if you use some dusting, chalks or pigments in your final weathering on the vehicle, these will be pulled off by the adhesive "clay" and you would need to redo these blems between "shoots". IF not using this stuff, than not!

Hope this helps!

Cheers! Bob

Thanks panzerbob! The clay is a good idea, the only concern I have is that it might result in the pieces not sitting 100% flush, as I'd like them to. I don't think I can do that with the gun barrels though -- they are white metal, and heavy! I think I'm going to lightly superglue the gun in and then rip it out when I want to update the kit to the last variant, with the laser cannon ... and hope it doesn't come out!

Anyone have any thoughts on how well superglue adheres to an AFV kit that has all of the layers of washes and clear coats on it?

No pastels for me, at least not while I'm doing all the upgrades. However, I might just use some of the tracks and try not to touch them. Once the kit is done, I might skip the pastels as well, as I plan to game with it, and when you do so you are handling them all the time -- it would ruin the finish and get pastels all over my hands!

Hey K,

The CA glue will stick and hold on any of the finish layers as long as they're fully dried.

However, it will in effect only be gluing one layer of paint (the base model) to another layer of paint (the finished optional part). This will be good and bad.

The good side is that the optional part(s) will be easy to remove.

The down side is that the paint layers at the point of gluing will also be removed (on either the base model or the optional part). One side of the glue joint will have a build-up of glue and paint from the other side. The other side will be bare underlying material (resin or white metal).

So, the next part that you glue on will require some paint touch up around the previous glue joints. And if the fist glue spot remains on the base model, you'll have to pick or "flake" that glue-paint blob off to have a smooth surface for the next part else it won't fit well.

I haven't checked out your link (to see the scope of the subject), but it seems like it might be simpler to build all three versions individually rather than deal with the re-touching and fitting issues with each new round of optional parts.

Alternatively, you could try PVA glue (Elmer's, etc) which sould hold well enough for your photography needs, but it is very slow to dry hard enough for handling (even if you pour some out and let it thicken over a few hours). Also, for heavy parts, you'll have to use tape strips, etc, to hold the parts in position while the glue dries.

Another alrernative might be Walther's Goo, which is a contact cement that dries faily quickly. It generally will peal off painted and base plastic surfaces, but it also could still pull up some of the underlying paint, leaving you not much better off than with using CA.

I can't think of any CA debonders that won't strip the paint off too.

Not much help, I guess, but I think if I were going to do what you're trying, I'd just build several complete versions of the kit. This would also allow you to photograph all of them side-by-side to illustrate the differences.

K;

Use a very TINY bit of sticky clay and things will fit pretty flush for photography.

Those weightier bits, like the gun barrels, may well need that CA. With the ills and issues you have noted. But, hey, can't have everything!

While CA is identified as a culprit here, please do be aware that most glues, including those "white" glues, can pull off paint layers - and that's regardless of what type of paints are being used. It's always the case when the glue adheres better to the paint than the paint does to whatever is beneath it...! This is why I went to that sticky clay - it's low-adhesion (weak!) and so it rarely pulls off paint.

As you are not apparently using pigments, that's a non-issue...

Maybe you can carefully "map-out" the sequence of stuff you want to "version thru" so that you first swap in and out easier-to-attach things, and save the super-gluing tasks for the last swapping....?

Cheers!

Bob

That's a good idea, Bob, thanks!