Hello,

I've seen pictures of the flak 37 & flakvierling mounted on the armored cab Bussing-Nag 4500A & armored cab Mercedes-Benz 4500A, but was wondering if anyone has seen any pictures of other flak guns mounted on these vehicles? I have the Azimut Armored Cab Bussing-Nag 4500A & am wanting to build it with a different flak gun.

Thanks

Sam;

Hi!

I'd guess that you have about 3 common choices of flak guns for that truck - the 3.7cm line-up, the 2cm flakvierling, or the single-barrel 2cm flak 38. These were the standard small / auto-fire flak guns widely in service in German forces. All would fit the weight range of the truck.

Being as you have mentioned this vehicle was an armored version... the ones you've seen pics of with flakvierlings and 3.7cm flak 37 or 43 were probably the only versions created... the armored cab things were pretty "purpose-built" and (mostly) not field-expedient, unlike guys sticking an available flak gun onto the back of an empty cargo truck or Maultier. And, if later-war, the single-barrel Flak 38 was less likely to be a "planned and purpose-built" installation, owing to its limited utility against aircraft.

One possible alternative which could be kind of different and fun would be to mount up one of those 3cm Flak 38/103 "Jaboschreck" guns (Dragon kitted this) - these were actually pretty few and far-between, but a bigger bang... and being a late - war item, perhaps could plausibly be a field-expedient application or maybe a hypothetical replacement for a damaged gun.

Cheers!

Bob

What about a 5 cm Flak 41 gun ?







(from this thread http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=96505

HTH

Frenchy

Now there's a piece! Leave it to Frenchy to find the rare and exciting!

So it seems there's at least one more option for a gun onto that armored truck! It does look vaguely familiar now I see this pic - Also looks like this may have been a one-off test vehicle or prototype and not something actually in use in action... (if that matters to the original quest this thread for options of guns on armored trucks).

In so far as I can find out, this 5cm Flak 41 was a rare bird, with maybe 60 or so all-up being produced (so even less common than that Jaboschreck conversion piece). Some of these were apparently mounted in fortifications, some supplied with twin bogies for towing, a few crafted onto vehicles, etc. From what I read, folks were underwhelmed by this design...

I do think that I've seen somewhere - probably evilbay - a resin kit for this gun as mounted in a fortification.

Kinda interesting "bridge" to sdkfz 10/5 with flak 38 thread now on this site... the thread hit on the need or utility of trailers for to hold flak-track ammo supply... This 41 gun had much larger ammo than did either the 2cm or 3.7cm guns under discussion in that thread. Which would surely argue that THIS piece would need a trailer, but bad! LoL!

Cheers!

Bob

Looks like there are maybe other pics of the same trucks available :
http://sudwall.superforum.fr/t3590-camion-mercedes-l4500-a-flak-43

According to the comments, they are fitted with Flak 43s...

Frenchy

That palm tree is obscuring what surasell looks like a trailer to me.

You can see more trailers in the linked pics Bill

Frenchy

Yep.

You can't seriously have one of these guns without an ammo re-supply vehicle. Whether it's a trailer or a truck, it's gotta be one or the other.

I would think the Flak 38 mk 103 30mm would also be an option as well as the Bofors gun in limited numbers....... though Im not sure about them on a 4500 series exclusively.

Chris

They look pretty Flak-43-ish to me (and the -43 would certainly fit right into the armored-truck and track set)! Although those shields DO look a little different from what I think I see in most pics of -43 vehicles...

And I would bet those are trailers behind them. Bill... this fits into my thoughts the other thread concerning guns and trailers...! These guys are on a route-march for sure, and that 3.7cm gun certainly would want a trailer for its much-bigger ammo! From this, Trumpeter gets a nod for its trailers in larger flak - track kits!

As to the Flak 38 on vehicles... early-on (even back in 1938) the Germans recognized that the single-mount 2cm gun was actually quite inadequate as an anti-air weapon. It simply fired too slowly (yeah, 600 rpm cyclic rate, but swapping out 20-round mags left the effective firing rate down around 100 or so rpm... gunners would get a short (20 round) squirt at a plane, and then... ugh.) for effective area AA defense. OK for ground-support, though. The role most single-gun Flak 38 types actually worked most in. The preference leaned early in favor of the Flakvierling and the 3.7cm flak line-up for actual flak-vehicle applications. But these larger and heavier weapons did need somewhat larger carriers. It would seem pretty logical that, if there were larger weapons available, why mount a single Flak 38?

Bob

Yes. What possibly could I have been thinking (if indeed I actually was)! Clearly not a -43. It's likely a -37.

Given the scene with mountains and palms... maybe this is Sicily in ca 1943?

Frenchy's first post is a 5cm Flak 41, The column of vehicles are of the 1st Herman Goring Flak Regiment, Kampfgruppe Schmid in Tunisia and are 3.7cm Flak 36/37.

Hi Joe

This would mean that there's a place in Tunisia that looks just like another place in Southern France - La Garde, near the port of Toulon. (just take a look at the relief in the background) ...

http://sudwall.superforum.fr/t3584-la-garde-83-1942-2009

Sorry for the digression.

Frenchy

Frenchy,
It may look like the south of France and it also looks like it is just outside of San Diego, California. Historical records reflect that HG 1st Flak Regiment, III Battalion was equiped with 8 such vehicles. The vehicles in the photo are still in Panzer Grey with luftwaffe Licinse plates which dates the photos to pre summer 1943. This also pre dates any considerable german buildup in the south of France. This of course does not say that the Unit may have been shipped thru the south of France enroute to Tunisia.

That one is a 2cm Flak 38....

Point taken Joe ... even if the presence of a German Flak unit in the San Diego area would be less plausible All I can say is that I've checked the Polish archive site (NAC) mentionned on the other forum and here's what I've found :

These pics :





are both included in a series called "German troops on the French Riviera" and are dated September 1943.

This other picture is included in the same series :




Frenchy

I know it's a bit late, but I've forgotten to add that the Polish archive captions describe the guns as being Flak 36s.

Frenchy