Right, I've got a gravity feed AB (Iwata) and I'm going to be spraying enamels (Humbrol).
Now, I know I've got to use enamel thinners. Do I thin it down to what consistency/ratio. Use the directions on the paint tin (if I've got the Hubble Telescope)?
Also, as a bit of help, do you mix the ratio directly into the paint tin then pour into gravity cup, or mix in a stand alone cup/jar then into gravity cup. Whatever's not used decant into a jar and save.
Yeah, I know all these questions and more, but I hope you get the gist of this question, in a nutshell what's the best way to thin enamels prior to pouring into AB.
Cheers.
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Thinning Enamels For AB
reccymech
Victoria, Australia
Joined: February 20, 2011
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Joined: February 20, 2011
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Posted: Monday, April 04, 2011 - 05:21 PM UTC
Posted: Monday, April 04, 2011 - 11:20 PM UTC
Hi Mark
There is really no magic ratio, but I'll tell you the best advice I received when starting to learn to airbrush.. and that is as a starting point thin you paint to the consistency of whole milk to start.. then add more thinner if needed until you get a good mix that sprays correctly.
as for where to mix If I'm using a gravity feed I mix in the paint cup.. siphon feed I mix in the jar I'm going to use. I never mix in the paint jar itself.
And Mainly observe and learn about your paint of choice, different paints have different thinning properties.
There is really no magic ratio, but I'll tell you the best advice I received when starting to learn to airbrush.. and that is as a starting point thin you paint to the consistency of whole milk to start.. then add more thinner if needed until you get a good mix that sprays correctly.
as for where to mix If I'm using a gravity feed I mix in the paint cup.. siphon feed I mix in the jar I'm going to use. I never mix in the paint jar itself.
And Mainly observe and learn about your paint of choice, different paints have different thinning properties.
retiredyank
Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
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Posted: Monday, April 04, 2011 - 11:58 PM UTC
I have a few small cups I mix my paint in. I have found that mixing Model Master's and Testors' paints 1:1 is a good ratio(you can use regular paint thinner for this). Also, you can thin 10:1(thinner-paint) for a wash and 5:1 for a buff. Hope this helps.
reccymech
Victoria, Australia
Joined: February 20, 2011
KitMaker: 87 posts
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Joined: February 20, 2011
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Posted: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - 12:49 PM UTC
Cheers for the input, yeah I just wanted a bit of a 'starting' point before I go off on some strange tangent and make a total hash of my model/s.
Going to have a 'crack' at it today and hopefully no tears
Going to have a 'crack' at it today and hopefully no tears
Kharkov
Joined: April 09, 2011
KitMaker: 181 posts
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KitMaker: 181 posts
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Posted: Sunday, April 10, 2011 - 05:30 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Mark
There is really no magic ratio, but I'll tell you the best advice I received when starting to learn to airbrush.. and that is as a starting point thin you paint to the consistency of whole milk to start.. then add more thinner if needed until you get a good mix that sprays correctly.
as for where to mix If I'm using a gravity feed I mix in the paint cup.. siphon feed I mix in the jar I'm going to use. I never mix in the paint jar itself.
And Mainly observe and learn about your paint of choice, different paints have different thinning properties.
Nice to hear that someone is still painting with Humbrol enamels, I was begining to think I am the only one left
But yeah, this guy is right, there is no hard rule on mixing enamels, get it to the consistency of milk, and then start test spraying, it all pritty much depends on your Air brush, but milk is good starting point.
Go to an artist shop and get some little mixing bottles, mix everything in these and then transfer to your AB
Posted: Monday, April 11, 2011 - 10:00 AM UTC
Howdy again..
Just for the record I also airbrush humbrol enamals now and then got about 50 tins or so, thought my colors are a little limited as they are not to popular around here.. I really like them for small parts and detailing as they brush paint very nicely.
My main choice is Model Master Enamels, mainly because I like them and they are easy to get around here in the states.. .. that and I dabble in Tamiya and polyscale acrylics..
laters all
Just for the record I also airbrush humbrol enamals now and then got about 50 tins or so, thought my colors are a little limited as they are not to popular around here.. I really like them for small parts and detailing as they brush paint very nicely.
My main choice is Model Master Enamels, mainly because I like them and they are easy to get around here in the states.. .. that and I dabble in Tamiya and polyscale acrylics..
laters all
Posted: Monday, April 11, 2011 - 10:36 AM UTC
The most important thing when airbrushing Humbrol enamels is to have the correct thinner. Use the wrong thinner, and the paint and thinner will seperate in the cup and clog the brush ... the paint/pigment falls to the bottom. I tied several thinners some years ago and some worked but then lifted paint as they were "hotter". Now I stick to Humbrolīs own enamel thinner and never have to worry. This is perfect for washes as well.
I mix in a seperate jar as well, before adding to the brush. I usually save old tamiya jars especially for this.
I mix in a seperate jar as well, before adding to the brush. I usually save old tamiya jars especially for this.
rebelsoldier
Arizona, United States
Joined: June 30, 2004
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Joined: June 30, 2004
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Posted: Monday, April 11, 2011 - 06:10 PM UTC
good read and info from all, i've learned something today.
thank you
reb
thank you
reb
retiredyank
Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
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Posted: Monday, April 11, 2011 - 09:18 PM UTC
Just for the record, how good are Humbrol paints? I've considered using them, but hated to leave the safety of Tamiya and MM.
Posted: Monday, April 11, 2011 - 11:37 PM UTC
Hey Matt
In my opinion Humbrol are pretty good to airbrush.. compared to Model Master enamels, Hombrol seems to tend to seperate a little more if left sitting, but nothing a bit of stirring won't fix.. and the hombrols are of a thicker consistancy than the Model master enamels, so I thin em a little more.
and btw I've used Testers Model Master enamel thinner with them with no problems..
In my opinion Humbrol are pretty good to airbrush.. compared to Model Master enamels, Hombrol seems to tend to seperate a little more if left sitting, but nothing a bit of stirring won't fix.. and the hombrols are of a thicker consistancy than the Model master enamels, so I thin em a little more.
and btw I've used Testers Model Master enamel thinner with them with no problems..
Kharkov
Joined: April 09, 2011
KitMaker: 181 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 - 01:31 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Just for the record, how good are Humbrol paints? I've considered using them, but hated to leave the safety of Tamiya and MM.
In my humble opinion, they are very very good, and very underated these days.
It has to be said that the popularity of all these "new" paints on the market is down to aggressive marketing in magazines and on websites, but that is not to say that they are inferior to Humbrol enamels, just they are marketed better.
Humbrol need to up there image, re-design their paint containers, ie move with the times and make them look more "trendy"
And lets not forget the advantages of Enamels -
1. They are without doubt much better suited for beginers with Airbrushes, due to their slower drying time.
2. Enamels will never dry in mid air like Acrylics, this is a major problem for alot of people just starting with airbrushes, and leads to that horrible sandy finish seen on many models, this is the result of the acrylic paint drying before it hits the model.
3. Enamels are easy to clean up, because they dry slower, with acrylics cleaning your AB is always a bit of a pannick because of the fast dry time, with enamels you can get away with murder tbh, and your AB will live to fight another day.
4. In my opinion Enamels are better suited to oil washes, from my experiance oil washes seem to just flow better on enamels, not sure why, but all my washes on acrylics have never gone very well.
I spose at the end of the day it comes down to what your happy painting with, some people swear by acrylics, others swear by enamels, try both, see what you like best.
But Humbrol really do need to move with the times, get trendy, and get marketing
Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 - 10:59 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextJust for the record, how good are Humbrol paints? I've considered using them, but hated to leave the safety of Tamiya and MM.
In my humble opinion, they are very very good, and very underated these days.
It has to be said that the popularity of all these "new" paints on the market is down to aggressive marketing in magazines and on websites, but that is not to say that they are inferior to Humbrol enamels, just they are marketed better.
Humbrol need to up there image, re-design their paint containers, ie move with the times and make them look more "trendy"
And lets not forget the advantages of Enamels -
1. They are without doubt much better suited for beginers with Airbrushes, due to their slower drying time.
2. Enamels will never dry in mid air like Acrylics, this is a major problem for alot of people just starting with airbrushes, and leads to that horrible sandy finish seen on many models, this is the result of the acrylic paint drying before it hits the model.
3. Enamels are easy to clean up, because they dry slower, with acrylics cleaning your AB is always a bit of a pannick because of the fast dry time, with enamels you can get away with murder tbh, and your AB will live to fight another day.
4. In my opinion Enamels are better suited to oil washes, from my experiance oil washes seem to just flow better on enamels, not sure why, but all my washes on acrylics have never gone very well.
I spose at the end of the day it comes down to what your happy painting with, some people swear by acrylics, others swear by enamels, try both, see what you like best.
But Humbrol really do need to move with the times, get trendy, and get marketing
Couldnīt agree more. I can only paint with humbrols ... although I spray more with tamiya acrylics for the ease of clean-up. Other advantages are dry-brushing. They can be blended with some oils to lengthen drying time and aid feathering on figures. You can make washes direct from Humbrols ... you actually donīt have to buy oils for this. Less likely to "skin" when paint brushing and leave brush marks in the paint. etc. etc. In my opinion, Humbrols are the singel best paint available today. You can use it for everything. if you use other types like all these trendy acrylics, you will need other options for different techniques. I saw the MIG video that he did for Vallejo, and even when using retarder and flow agents, its still not as good as enamels,
tankglasgow
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: October 04, 2010
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Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 - 12:01 PM UTC
Interesting topic, when I started back in the seventies Humbrol enamels were the only paint for models, since I got back into it last year there now seems to be a plethora of types, manufacturers, thinners, retarders etc and I was beginning to feel that I was still in the dark ages and recently tried Tamiya acrylic through my brand new first ever AB because I felt that I should be "moving with the times". The results were Ok but I did seem to suffer from the "sandy" finnish mentioned above.
I did try hand brushing with acrylic but it didn't work for me, the paint didn't want to adhere the way trusty old Humbrol does. So as mentioned above perhaps Humbrol do have first class product but a second class image and should maybe shout a bit louder out there in marketland.
I did try hand brushing with acrylic but it didn't work for me, the paint didn't want to adhere the way trusty old Humbrol does. So as mentioned above perhaps Humbrol do have first class product but a second class image and should maybe shout a bit louder out there in marketland.
Kharkov
Joined: April 09, 2011
KitMaker: 181 posts
Armorama: 175 posts
KitMaker: 181 posts
Armorama: 175 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 - 05:46 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Interesting topic, when I started back in the seventies Humbrol enamels were the only paint for models, since I got back into it last year there now seems to be a plethora of types, manufacturers, thinners, retarders etc and I was beginning to feel that I was still in the dark ages and recently tried Tamiya acrylic through my brand new first ever AB because I felt that I should be "moving with the times". The results were Ok but I did seem to suffer from the "sandy" finnish mentioned above.
I did try hand brushing with acrylic but it didn't work for me, the paint didn't want to adhere the way trusty old Humbrol does. So as mentioned above perhaps Humbrol do have first class product but a second class image and should maybe shout a bit louder out there in marketland.
ref "moving with the times"
This is the result of the above mentioned aggressive marketing, it can sometimes make people feel that they have to "move on", this then creates the suggestion in their mind that what they are moving onto is somehow better.
I think a good example of this is something that took place in model shops in my area quite a few years ago.
Humbrol paint stands used to be posistioned in the shop in a fairly prominant place, at the forefront so to speak, then all of a sudden, they got relegated to what can only be described as a "back seat".
And in there place came Tamiya paint stands, taking pride of place, at the forefront, all of a sudden you had to actually search the shop to find your Humbrols.
Now, whether this was down to shop owners taking the view that they were selling more Tamiya paint than Humbrol, and therefore Tamiya deserved pride of place is open to question I think.
I have a sneaky feeling it was down to aggressive marketing by Tamiya reps, but thats just my view.
On the subject of the dreaded "sand paper" effect, I can only offer this advice, its been a long time since I used Acrylics, but if I remember right, just be very carefull with your distance from the model when spraying with your AB, if you stray to far away then a percentage of the paint will be dry before contact, so move in closer.
I also found that I got better results with the Tamiya Thinners, but I got fed up with the cost tbh, the price they charge for this thinner is absurd considering the amount you get.
And here we get back to Humbrol, because I can get a better finnish, in a shorter time, and at less cost, I can thin it with white spirits, mineral spirits, bought from pritty much any shop, in a big bottle, at a sensible price.
I can then use that same thinner for my oil washes, and for cleaning up, its a total no brainer really when you think about it.
But trend is trend, and like sheep we follow trends.........
reccymech
Victoria, Australia
Joined: February 20, 2011
KitMaker: 87 posts
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Joined: February 20, 2011
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Armorama: 74 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 11:15 PM UTC
Well, been spraying with the Humbrol enamels and still trying to get the ratio down pat, but results are favourable.
Tried spraying some Vallejo today, thinned it down, but not enough I reckon.
Anyway, comparing the post spraying clean-up between both paint mediums and its the same, I guess the Vallejo is less 'damaging' as I cleaned the AB with Windex and some distilled water, whereas, with the enamels have to use thinners.
Just a bit of feedback, and great reading all your inputs.
Cheers & beers.
Tried spraying some Vallejo today, thinned it down, but not enough I reckon.
Anyway, comparing the post spraying clean-up between both paint mediums and its the same, I guess the Vallejo is less 'damaging' as I cleaned the AB with Windex and some distilled water, whereas, with the enamels have to use thinners.
Just a bit of feedback, and great reading all your inputs.
Cheers & beers.