Яusso-Soviэt Forum
Russian or Soviet vehicles/armor modeling forum.
Building a BTR-80A
MINIARM
Visit this Community
Russia
Joined: May 17, 2010
KitMaker: 61 posts
Armorama: 60 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 - 07:15 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

By the way wheels from SP designs are not very horrible. I did not expect it.



Yeah, I had read one or two negative things about them aswell- but they are damn good.



They have recently been remastered from 3D renderings and print-a-part. I have not even seen them yet...and there are 4 sets coming out, including BTR-80A wheels.



These wheels are a piracy copy of Miniarm as this guy from Ukraine copies also some details for the hand-made articles but as SP Design does the work of the house on kitchen, we can't influence them

Karl187
#284
Visit this Community
Northern Ireland, United Kingdom
Joined: October 04, 2006
KitMaker: 3,094 posts
Armorama: 2,942 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 - 08:34 AM UTC
Mauro- glad you like it, cheers !
Karl187
#284
Visit this Community
Northern Ireland, United Kingdom
Joined: October 04, 2006
KitMaker: 3,094 posts
Armorama: 2,942 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 05, 2011 - 12:41 AM UTC
Before I go on with some more weathering I must say thanks to Jacques for helping me with a question about the location of the fuel filler caps. I must also thank Mauro for providing me with some awesome Chechnya references. Cheers guys.

So, on to the streaking then. This is a new technique to me but its one I've been wanting to try since getting AK's Streaking Grime a while ago.

I'll start by saying this is not the easiest technique to master. It took me a bit of experimentation to get the streaks looking right. The good thing is that the product rubs off very easily with some thinner so you can clear up any mistakes.
This also presents a problem though. On the jar itself the instructions say to paint the stuff on with a fine brush and then feather with a thinner moistened brush several minutes later. I tried feathering it with a round brush moistened with thinner. It didn't really work and the thinner I was using (not AK thinner) removed pretty much all of the streaks.

So at this point I went online and had a look at some of the techniques linked from AK's website. This gave me a better idea of how to achieve the desired result. It also confirmed what I already suspected- that you should use a flat brush to feather the streaks. (I reckon they should mention that on the bottle itself.)

However, the thinner I moistened the brush with still ended up removing most of the streaks. I'm not sure if the brand of thinner I'm using is too strong or what but I got better results when the brush was almost dry of thinner. I also found that you can wait several hours and the streaks are still able to be manipulated.

As an example of the effect, here's a couple of pictures of the streaks (applied with a fine tipped brush) before they are feathered:





And here's the streaks after they have been feathered:





Some more pictures of the streaking:











All in all I like this product and I'll probably use it from now on when doing this sort of weathering. I'll probably be adding more streaks later.
Right now I'm waiting on some products I bought from AK Interactive, their 'Muddy' set which I plan to dirty up the vehicle underside with. I hope to get my hands on it soon and naturally I'll have some pics of it.

I'm still working away on the base aswell, I'll have some pictures of that soon.

Thanks for reading,

-Karl187-


Spiderfrommars
Visit this Community
Milano, Italy
Joined: July 13, 2010
KitMaker: 3,845 posts
Armorama: 3,543 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 05, 2011 - 01:12 AM UTC
Stunning work indeed


Other Pics for you

http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=16498755@N07&q=btr-80#page=0

Not Chechen but anyway quite interesting



cheers
Karl187
#284
Visit this Community
Northern Ireland, United Kingdom
Joined: October 04, 2006
KitMaker: 3,094 posts
Armorama: 2,942 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 05, 2011 - 10:01 AM UTC
Too kind Mauro, cheers !
Karl187
#284
Visit this Community
Northern Ireland, United Kingdom
Joined: October 04, 2006
KitMaker: 3,094 posts
Armorama: 2,942 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 08, 2011 - 04:39 AM UTC
I tried to get this posted last night but some stormy weather here is playing havoc with the internet (so apologies if some of the pictures don't show up- I'll try to remedy this). Anyway, on with the build.

I said earlier I was going to use AK Interactive’s new mud set for this mode. Unfortunately they seem to be having some stock problems (perhaps a live stock indicator on the website would be a good idea- a good lot of other modelling shops do this) and I don’t think it will be arriving anytime soon.

So...a back-up plan. Mud is a funny old thing. There are quite a few ways to make it (from real mud to plaster to ready-made mixes) but mud isn’t the same everywhere, so some good references are needed. The scene I’m creating is urban but it is based on references from Chechnya where mud seems to be everywhere- urban or not. The mud is, in many places, also quite dark and there’s a lot of rubble dust and dirt ground into it.

Here’s some references (with thanks to Mauro for digging up some of these):

http://www.missing-lynx.com/library/modern/russia/inaction/grozny-5.jpg" BORDER="0">

http://www.missing-lynx.com/library/modern/russia/inaction/grozny-10.jpg" BORDER="0">





http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/Chechnya2003/abt.jpg" BORDER="0">

http://www.missing-lynx.com/library/modern/russia/inaction/grozny-66.jpg" BORDER="0">

I know the last one wasn’t a BTR but it shows some nice mud build-up at the front.

If I’m doing a tracked vehicle I like to use the plaster technique to make the mud but for wheeled vehicles I’ve been using Tamiya’s Surface detail paints. I think these are an amazing product and I’ve used them quite a bit on various things (their tarmac colors work great over a nice flat surface to create a road very quickly). For mud their ‘Soil Effect’ is the consistency I’m looking for- gritty.

The downside to this stuff is it dries rock hard and is very difficult to remove- so I would say practice with it to make sure it’s what you want.
As you can see I have applied it on ‘the usual suspects’- i.e. the places that would be most prone to mud/dirt build-up:









Right now it looks a bit strange. On some vehicles in some environments it would like right straight away. For my scene it doesn’t. But another good thing about this stuff is you can paint over it with paints, washes and pigments to get the right look- without having to worry about it chipping off at the touch of a brush.

My plan is to use a pigment mix, washes and some AK Dark Mud to alter the tone and create dirt splashes and that sort of thing.

(I also added some more streaking to various parts:



)

I’ve also nearly finished the painting stage of the base. For bases it’s easy to get carried away and feel every single tiny bit of grit needs to be a certain color!! It’s enough to drive you mad. But, I always look around for loads of references and sort of come up with a ‘composite’ image in my head based on those. For this scene I’m going for dirt, mud and dust- not necessarily in that order!

Some of these images helped (again, my hat is off to Mauro for finding some of these):



http://www.soldati-russian.ru/_ph/8/2/520402772.jpg" BORDER="0">

http://www.soldati-russian.ru/_ph/4/2/609815207.jpg" BORDER="0">

http://www.heidibradner.com/galleries/chechnyacolor/images/01-Grozny.jpg" BORDER="0">

First I do the base colors, then I go for washes (acrylic washes) and then drybrushing (acrylic). This is the result of these stages (except for the barrel which is the hairspray technique and some streaking grime):









Thanks for reading,

-Karl187-
dvarettoni
Visit this Community
South Carolina, United States
Joined: September 28, 2005
KitMaker: 778 posts
Armorama: 763 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 - 03:18 AM UTC
keep it coming karl looking great
dave
Karl187
#284
Visit this Community
Northern Ireland, United Kingdom
Joined: October 04, 2006
KitMaker: 3,094 posts
Armorama: 2,942 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 - 04:53 AM UTC
Dave- thanks a lot bud! Have you started anything/continued anything after the Centurion build?

Since most of the reference photos in my last post went AWOL I'll throw some in again and hope they work this time!









As you can see from these photos the mud gets pretty much everywhere, although less so toward the top of the hull. This is what I'm working on at the moment- getting the color of the mud right and applying the spatters etc.









The above are just some general pictures I was using to get an idea of the mud and the general state of the urban areas.

I'll hopefully be finishing the application of mud and dirt today and have some photos soon enough.

In the meantime here's a couple of sneak previews of the figure I'm using. (Its from Masterclub and is superb. The gun is an RPKM and the rocket launcher on his back is an RPG-26 Aglen. The straps on the weapons and helmet are made from doubled up Tamiya masking tape.)







He's been painted and is ready to go onto the base. I'll have more pictures with the next post.

Thanks for reading,

-Karl187-
vonHengest
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2010
KitMaker: 5,854 posts
Armorama: 4,817 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 - 05:25 AM UTC
I can't believe I missed this, nice work Karl!
Karl187
#284
Visit this Community
Northern Ireland, United Kingdom
Joined: October 04, 2006
KitMaker: 3,094 posts
Armorama: 2,942 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 12, 2011 - 01:15 AM UTC
Jeremy- Glad you like it, cheers !

I'll have some more photos later today, stay tuned!
dylans
Visit this Community
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: March 05, 2009
KitMaker: 394 posts
Armorama: 380 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 12, 2011 - 01:35 AM UTC
Thats looking really great Karl. as for the colour of the mud it seems really grey to me. some of the shots posted show fresh mud being a dark khaki colour but once it has dried it becomes really light. you might try a mix of tan and grey for your dust colour.
whatever you do I am going to be paying close attention.
D
Karl187
#284
Visit this Community
Northern Ireland, United Kingdom
Joined: October 04, 2006
KitMaker: 3,094 posts
Armorama: 2,942 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 12, 2011 - 01:51 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thats looking really great Karl. as for the colour of the mud it seems really grey to me. some of the shots posted show fresh mud being a dark khaki colour but once it has dried it becomes really light. you might try a mix of tan and grey for your dust colour.
whatever you do I am going to be paying close attention.
D



Yes, I think in a lot of places the mud in Chechnyan urban areas has been mixed heavily with debris from destroyed buildings giving it all sorts of weird colors. I have plenty of pigments of various colors so no worries!
Thanks for the comments.

-Karl187-
Karl187
#284
Visit this Community
Northern Ireland, United Kingdom
Joined: October 04, 2006
KitMaker: 3,094 posts
Armorama: 2,942 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 12, 2011 - 05:00 AM UTC
So here with go with making the mud suitable for the Chechnya type environment!

My first port of call was a light coat of Mig's Dark Wash over all the areas already coated with the Tamiya Texture Paint.
I then took the following Mig pigments and mixed them together for the correct tone: Rubble Dust, Dark Mud, Europe Dust, Brick Dust and Track Brown.
Water was added to turn this into kind of thick paint or gloop! Like the wash this was painted onto the aforementioned areas but I also used and old brush to 'stab' it into areas around the texture paint.

Once this had dried I took the same mix of pigments and brushed it on dry in a few areas (the water and pigments mix gives a slightly darker finish than if they were used dry).

Still with me? Good!

So the prior stages gives a nice dark and dirty tone to the mud. But now we need some drier tones and some spattering. Over on the AK Website techniques blog Mig recommends trying some of the products mixed with plaster/wall filler to create great looking mud. So I mixed some plaster in a cup with some AK Dark Mud- not too much filler for this effect- you don't want it clumpy and thick (that would be useful to apply lots of dried mud but not for spatters and small dried clumps).

I mixed this concoction until it was about the consistency of Mr. Surfacer. Mig recommends using an airbrush for the spatters but I find this too unpredictable so I use a piece of evergreen plastic card and the old flicking technique. What the plaster does is give the spatters some body- so they look like bits of mud thrown up. I also stabbed the mixture onto areas where the crew would be walking or climbing up the vehicle. I then used some more to paint into certain areas of the model to give a variation of tones.

Enough talk! Here's some pics:





















As you can see there are also some areas darker than the rest- this is the first of a few coats of a mix of Mig Productions Dark Wash and Wet Effects. This is to represent damp areas where the mud hasn't dried. I also have some more dry pigments to add.

But before I do that I'll be adding the wheels:







They were muddied up in the same way as the rest of the model.

I'll have some more pictures of the base and figure later today.

Thanks for reading.

-Karl187-
Karl187
#284
Visit this Community
Northern Ireland, United Kingdom
Joined: October 04, 2006
KitMaker: 3,094 posts
Armorama: 2,942 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 12, 2011 - 08:57 AM UTC
As promised I have some pictures of the base and some more of the figure.

The last pictures I posted of the base were after the dyrbrushing. After that I sealed it with some Vallejo matt varnish. After it dried I used Mig Productions Brown Wash on the tarmac. Then I used various pigments in different areas- brick dust around the red bricks and rubble dust around the rest. I also applied some of these randomly fanning out from the piles of debris as would happen if they had been destroyed or collapsed. These were then fixed with Pigment Fixer.

Some more grime was added to the barrel (the matt varnish takes away some of the grimey effect) and the wet effects and dark wash mix was added in various areas to represent damp tarmac.









Now, I have already finished the figure but I thought it would be helpful to outline some of the colors and techniques used.
There are so many different types of Russian camouflage you could go for. I found this site quite helpful: http://www.kamouflage.net/country/00156.php

I wanted two different camo patterns on the figure for some visual interest- the one for the trousers is 1990 TsV Camo (Mountain/Desert) which has three colors- a dark khaki- dark green and red brown. I had a decent photo in a book as well showing a good close-up of a soldier wearing this camo.
I went for a similar (but different pattern and slightly different shades) camo with the jacket called Flora.

Base colors:







(It occured to me after I'd finished the figure that the base colors would actually be suitable themselves as plain one-color uniforms were also used by troops in Chechnya.)

Camo colors:











I'll post the rest of the figure painting tomorrow.

Thanks for reading,

-Karl187-





dvarettoni
Visit this Community
South Carolina, United States
Joined: September 28, 2005
KitMaker: 778 posts
Armorama: 763 posts
Posted: Friday, May 13, 2011 - 02:38 AM UTC
hey karl you are realy going all piy on this one !!!! and yes i'm working on a build right now i'm doing a aulav for the down under campaign i just posted some pic the other day
dave
dylans
Visit this Community
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: March 05, 2009
KitMaker: 394 posts
Armorama: 380 posts
Posted: Friday, May 13, 2011 - 04:53 AM UTC
holy smokes that mud looks fantastic. can you give us a step by step of how you did it?
Karl187
#284
Visit this Community
Northern Ireland, United Kingdom
Joined: October 04, 2006
KitMaker: 3,094 posts
Armorama: 2,942 posts
Posted: Friday, May 13, 2011 - 05:23 AM UTC
David- thanks bud. I saw your AUSLAV- super clean build! I'll be keeping an eye on it.

Dylan- much appreciated. Sure I can do a step by step for the mud. But do you mean the mud on the BTR or the mud on the base?
dylans
Visit this Community
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: March 05, 2009
KitMaker: 394 posts
Armorama: 380 posts
Posted: Friday, May 13, 2011 - 05:29 AM UTC
the mud on the BTR. specifically. what did you use to get the built up mud texture on ther hull ? and how did you get the mud to look half dried half wet. I am really blown away by this one


I am probably building a JS-2 in berlin 45 next so I am going to need to put mud on it, and your method looks the part
Karl187
#284
Visit this Community
Northern Ireland, United Kingdom
Joined: October 04, 2006
KitMaker: 3,094 posts
Armorama: 2,942 posts
Posted: Friday, May 13, 2011 - 09:39 AM UTC
Dylan- I'll set up a piece of scrap plastic and do some photos showing the process in stages. Give me a day or two .
guni-kid
Visit this Community
Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: July 21, 2007
KitMaker: 521 posts
Armorama: 514 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 14, 2011 - 11:32 AM UTC
Also waiting for this photo - step by step mud producing
Karl187
#284
Visit this Community
Northern Ireland, United Kingdom
Joined: October 04, 2006
KitMaker: 3,094 posts
Armorama: 2,942 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 15, 2011 - 09:38 AM UTC
I'll have the step-by-step mud technique up tomorrow hopefully.

In the meantime I thought I'd put up the rest of the figure pictures. As I said before the figure is Masterclub and was excellent. The gun is a little fragile and the barrel broke off twice but was re-mounted without too much fuss. The only other problem was a slight gap between the head and the rest of the body. I thought the paint might cover this but it didn't, although it isn't too noticeable. Anyway, here's the pictures:

Shadows:





Helmet chipped using hairspray technique:



Highlights:







After the highlights I sealed the painting under Vallejo Matte varnish (airbrushed) and then added a dark wash (everywhere except the skin) which was left to dry for a bit before the majority was rubbed off leaving a dark, weathered look.









And to finish off a pencil was rubbed onto the metal parts of the gun and the rim of the helmet.

I've since mounted the figure onto the base and dirtied the boots up with some mud pigments both dry and with some wet effects added.

The wheels and turret have both been mounted on the BTR and I hope to be putting it on the base tomorrow.

Thanks for reading,
-Karl187-



Zavod_112
Visit this Community
Croatia Hrvatska
Joined: April 24, 2010
KitMaker: 18 posts
Armorama: 17 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 15, 2011 - 10:57 AM UTC
Hello everyone.

Karl, your btr build is fantastic and it really kicked me to model more often since i haven't built nothing in allmost a year. Also because of your fine modeling i think the AK products will have a chance on my models soon.

I am only interesed in your camo of the russian soldier, Have you found somewhere the picture with this camo? Because i cant identify it.
Karl187
#284
Visit this Community
Northern Ireland, United Kingdom
Joined: October 04, 2006
KitMaker: 3,094 posts
Armorama: 2,942 posts
Posted: Monday, May 16, 2011 - 03:22 AM UTC
Andrej- Thanks for your comments, much appreciated.

As for the camo I used several references for the camo but the main ones were these:

The jacket pattern is based on this picture:



Using the kamouflage.net website I believe the jacket pattern is called Flora (http://www.kamouflage.net/camouflage/00017.php).

The trousers/pants are based on this (and like I said, I have a close up of the pattern in a book):



Again, using the kamouflage website, I believe the trouser/pants pattern is called 1990 TsV Mountain/Desert Camouflage (http://www.kamouflage.net/camouflage/00196.php).

I hope this helps Andrej.

Also- the mud guide will be up later today.

Thanks for reading,

-Karl187-

Karl187
#284
Visit this Community
Northern Ireland, United Kingdom
Joined: October 04, 2006
KitMaker: 3,094 posts
Armorama: 2,942 posts
Posted: Monday, May 16, 2011 - 05:37 AM UTC
THE MUD GUIDE

Stage-1

Make sure you have a varnish coat on your model to seal the paintwork. Matt, Satin, Gloss or Jonson’s Klear are all good for this.



You can pre-dust your model with dry pigments if you so wish but there is no real need.

To get the mud texture I’m using Tamiya Texture Paint-Soil Effect Brown. This is rather like pumice stone mixed with paint in appearance.





Take care when applying this as when it dries it does so to a very hard finish. You can thin it with water if you wish but you will lose the texture. This stuff will destroy a brush so use an old one! Give the bottle a stir before applying and then apply like paint, making sure to get a good build of texture and not just color. Sometimes this stuff will clump on the brush.



Once on the texture paint will take a while to dry- give it half a day or at least two hours if you are in a hurry. Touch-test it gently to make sure its dried hard. It will not flake off like plaster so you don’t have to be too gentle.



Stage 2

Next up is to give the mud some variation in color- that starts with a wash. Now you can use any color wash you want to achieve whichever color of mud you are looking for. The Mig Pigments Dark Wash used here is for a dark mud. Brush it on and leave it to dry. If you put on too much you can use a thinner moistened brush to remove it.





Stage 3

Once the wash is dry its time to add some more color using pigments. Again you can choose whichever colors you like although I’d advise sticking to earthy tones at this stage. For this dark mud I’m using Mig Pigments Track Brown and Dark Mud.



Be careful if you are using Track Brown as it is very dark and can overwhelm lighter colors. Mix this with water and apply liberally with a brush making sure to get some of it above the mud-line.







Stage 4

When the wet pigments are dry we have a nice dark finish. Now its time to add some lighter tones and spatter. In order to give the mud a bit of body (so it looks like actual clumps of mud thrown up onto the vehicle) you should use household powder filler or plaster. You can mix this with enamels or with wet pigments or even paint to achieve the color you desire. However, for this I’m using AK Interactive Dark Mud which, when added to plaster, gives a nice finish that isn’t too dark.



Use a plastic cup or similar receptacle to mix up the Dark Mud with the plaster. The consistency we’re looking for here is like a milkshake- you don’t want stodgy clumps in this technique although that can be useful for other techniques.



As you can see on the brush the mix isn’t too thick nor is it dripping off the brush- it still has a bit of ‘body’.



Now you can dab this on with a smaller brush than you mixed it with so you have more control over where it goes. You can also ‘spatter’ the mud by flicking the mixture on the paintbrush against a piece of plastic card. Have a go on a bit of paper first before applying it to your model. (You can also use an airbrush to spray the spatter on from behind the brush but I find this unpredictable and I get more control with the cardboard and flicking.) Then leave this to dry for a good few minutes. (Some plasters dry quickly- the one I am using is quick- about ten minutes and it was starting to dry. Other brands may take a shorter or longer time but about ten-fifteen minutes would be a good rule of thumb.)



Stage 5

As you can see the spatters are not flat- they are little clumps of dirt- like real mud spatters. Be careful when handling after this stage as the plaster/filler will rub and flake off easily. Now we can add some damp areas (if you so wish). I find the best way to do this is with enamel washes and gloss varnish- mixed up together. For this example I’m using the Mig Productions Dark Wash again as well as their Wet Effects and Damp Earth Mixture.



Mix them both up and apply in random patches to simulate mud that is still damp/wet. If you want it to look even more damp/wet then, once the mix is dry on the model, you can apply another coat of gloss varnish or Wet Effects (Johnson’s Klear would work well too).







Stage 6

Once that is dry you can leave it there or you can add some more pigments for more color variation depending on what kind of look you want for the model. If it was in a city, for example, you might want to add grey tones and if it was in the countryside then more earthy tones. I added Mig Pigments Rubble Dust to the left and Dark Mud to the right of the example.





And thats it- the finished example:






Thanks for reading.

-Karl187-




Zavod_112
Visit this Community
Croatia Hrvatska
Joined: April 24, 2010
KitMaker: 18 posts
Armorama: 17 posts
Posted: Monday, May 16, 2011 - 07:30 AM UTC
Oh it is a flora pattern.

Today's flora uniforms are a little darker but the pattern is right so it is ok

Thnx. for the help

Andrej