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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
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Is it best to use 'proper' primer?
geordie_boy
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: April 14, 2011
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Posted: Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 03:08 AM UTC
Hi,

I am (slowly) returning to model making after a 25 year layoff and I have a quick question:

Is it a big advantage to use a proprietary primer (I have some of the Tamiya spray can variety) to lay in the base coat on a model or will standard acrylics applied with an airbrush do the same job? I am building either plastic kits or resin figures – I don’t know if the answer will depend on the material of the model.

I am unsure if there are any special properties associated with the primers that I will be missing out on if I just use the airbrush & standard acrylics thinned with IPA (eg primer gives better adhesion / protection of plastic kit etc).

Once I get over my current problem of spending most of my time buying all the new shiny products that were not available back in the 80’s - along with the things I could never afford as a teenager - and knuckle down to actually building and painting more models the above will be more of an issue for me.



Finally I have to say a big thanks to you all here as I have used this site LOADS over the last 12 months to research various purchases and issues and it has been invaluable.

Thanks in advance,

Steve
(a lurker no more!)

Rouse713
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Wisconsin, United States
Joined: February 03, 2009
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Posted: Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 03:49 AM UTC
You are going to receive many different opinions on this:

1) Never used a primer and never had a problem
2) You must absolutely use a primer, especially over resin or metal parts
3) You must use a primer especially with acrylics
4) Primers give an even finish and help show bad spots
5) Dark primers can act as preshading


I tend to subscribe to 2 and 4, but I would also support 3 if I used acrylics. I use Mr. Surfacer 1000 as my primer. I spray a very light coat and it find it fills small gaps in nicely (be careful of the double edge sword however).
Spiderfrommars
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Milano, Italy
Joined: July 13, 2010
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Posted: Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 04:02 AM UTC
Hi Steve

As Mark said to you there are different opinions about primers

I don't like using the spray cans, 'cause i prefere the airbrush. Tamiya fine primer actually is a very good product but you can use just in spray can. To be exact it'isnt aa acrylic primer, is a lacquer primer

I prefere Vallejo primer because you can use it with AB. Is a polyurethane paint and is sold in different colors

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/review/6159

Otherwise others modeller don't use any primers because they say that on a VERY CLEAN surface acrylic paints grip very well

In my opinion if you want to decide what is your best choice,you should do some trials on junk models or on spare plastic parts

cheers
geordie_boy
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: April 14, 2011
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Posted: Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 04:02 AM UTC
Hi Mark


Quoted Text

You are going to receive many different opinions on this:


That's fine by me - you have already brought up some issues I had not considered (e.g. metal parts - I have bought some kits with these but not yet made any) - all info is usefull!

Thanks for your reply,

Steve
BillGorm
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: November 02, 2009
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Posted: Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 04:34 AM UTC
I use Tamiya's fine grey primer. It goes down perfectly and makes it easy to spot problem areas you apply paint. It also improves the paint's adherence (I use Tamiya acrylics). The rare occasions when paint bare plastic always remind me why I use Tamiya's primer.
SSGToms
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Connecticut, United States
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Posted: Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 04:47 AM UTC
It's best to use airbrushable primers as they give a much thinner coat. I recommend Vallejo primers for their quality and ease of use. They come in black, grey, and white. Also, Vallejo has just released a series of primer/basecoat in one, so you can lay down your primer and primary camo color at the same time.
Plasticbattle
#003
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Donegal, Ireland
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Posted: Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 05:48 AM UTC
I have used primers in the past, but havent used any now for a few years. I spray Tamiya directly from the airbrush ... over plastic, resin, etch and turned aluminium. One less layer of paint to bury fine detail.
I usually spray future/Johnssons over this for decals, and all washes are using Humbrol thinners, and as this is quite mild, Ive not had any problems with this.
panzerbob01
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Louisiana, United States
Joined: March 06, 2010
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Posted: Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 12:49 PM UTC
Steve;

Hey, welcome back into the hobby! I'm another one a you- recent returnee after many many years away.

Like the men said... many opinions!

I pretty much subscribe to Mark's numbers 4 and 5 (yeah, I'm one of those "pre-shade" guys who think putting on some dark first layer helps with what you get later after the real colors go on). I half endorse number 2- I don't anything about resin, but do think metal bits want some primer.

CLEAN kit is good, IMO, specially if you are applying acrylics straight on to a kit. (There's lot of opines about THAT subject, too!)

Frank is right about "less (layers) is more (detail showing)".

That said, I "prime with Floquil RR enamels to reveal my faults, pre-shade, and serve as a consistent painting surface for following acryls.

Bob
05Sultan
#037
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California, United States
Joined: December 19, 2004
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Posted: Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 06:07 PM UTC
I'm in the 'always use primers' group.(rattle can). You can get afine coat on the subject and keep the detail intact.Like everything else,it just takes practice. Primer removes all doubt that your paint will stick and stay that way for a long time. Welcome back!
Cheers!
Paul-H
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United Kingdom
Joined: April 02, 2010
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Posted: Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 06:32 PM UTC
Hi

I am in the always use primer camp, and for primier I eather use Vallejo Grey or as many UK Modeller are now using Halfords* Plastic Primer in Grey, eather direct from the rattle can or decanted for use in an airbrush if there is a lot of very fine detail.

* (Halfords are a UK based Automotive Super store)

Paul
geordie_boy
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: April 14, 2011
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Posted: Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 10:50 PM UTC
Hi Guys

Thanks for all the responses, they have been realy useful. I have used the Tamiya fine primers before but the only thing that puts me off is I seem to find I need a large space to spray them in.

As I only have a small model desk with a small extractor setup it wont cope with the 30cm distance needed for the rattle cans - therefore I need to use the shed. This is not ideal as it is used for gardening and woodwork/DIY etc and I don't want problems of dust and dirt sticking to the paint.

I completed my first figure (120mm resin) a couple of months ago and I just used standard Tamiya acrylic grey as a base coat (after a good clean with IPA to remove the releasing agents). I was happy with the result but I am now worrying that the paint may start flaking in the future due to the lack of a primer layer.

I like the idea of using the Tamiya rattle can primer decanted for airbrush use - do you thin this first? If so what with and what sort of ratios? I thin the standard acrylics with mix of about 70% IPA to 30% distilled water, will this work for the primer or is it a different type of paint?

I realise that there may be a wide range of answers to the latest questions as well but I have definatley decided now to use some form of proprietary primer in future.

Thanks again to all of you for the responses and the welcomes

C[ ]

Steve
Spiderfrommars
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Milano, Italy
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Posted: Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 11:12 PM UTC

Quoted Text



I like the idea of using the Tamiya rattle can primer decanted for airbrush use - do you thin this first? If so what with and what sort of ratios? I thin the standard acrylics with mix of about 70% IPA to 30% distilled water, will this work for the primer or is it a different type of paint?



Actually the paint in the rattle can is ready to use, so you don't have to dilute it.
You should just spray it in a jar and then you should decant it in the AB

here a tutorial:

http://www.ghostofzeon.com/diy/paintxtract/xtract.html

Tamiya primer is a lacquer paint so you can't dilute it with IPA or acrylics thinners

Anyway be careful. I've heard that someone had problems using this method because Lacquer thinner could dammage plastic surfaces

cheers
Delbert
#073
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Pennsylvania, United States
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Posted: Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 11:26 PM UTC
howdy..

I use mostly enamels and I'm in the camp that my first basecoat on a clean model is my primer...

just my 2 cents worth...
geordie_boy
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
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Posted: Friday, April 15, 2011 - 12:13 AM UTC
Ciao Mauro - Gratzi!!


Quoted Text


Quoted Text



I like the idea of using the Tamiya rattle can primer decanted for airbrush use - do you thin this first? If so what with and what sort of ratios? I thin the standard acrylics with mix of about 70% IPA to 30% distilled water, will this work for the primer or is it a different type of paint?



Actually the paint in the rattle can is ready to use, so you don't have to dilute it.
You should just spray it in a jar and then you should decant it in the AB

here a tutorial:

http://www.ghostofzeon.com/diy/paintxtract/xtract.html

Tamiya primer is a lacquer paint so you can't dilute it with IPA or acrylics thinners

Anyway be careful. I've heard that someone had problems using this method because Lacquer thinner could dammage plastic surfaces

cheers


I think this is the way for me, thanks to all for your contributions - you may have just opened the way to a load more questions from me

Cheers,

Steve
Spiderfrommars
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Milano, Italy
Joined: July 13, 2010
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Posted: Friday, April 15, 2011 - 05:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Ciao Mauro - Gratzi!!


Quoted Text


Quoted Text



I like the idea of using the Tamiya rattle can primer decanted for airbrush use - do you thin this first? If so what with and what sort of ratios? I thin the standard acrylics with mix of about 70% IPA to 30% distilled water, will this work for the primer or is it a different type of paint?




Actually the paint in the rattle can is ready to use, so you don't have to dilute it.
You should just spray it in a jar and then you should decant it in the AB

here a tutorial:

http://www.ghostofzeon.com/diy/paintxtract/xtract.html

Tamiya primer is a lacquer paint so you can't dilute it with IPA or acrylics thinners

Anyway be careful. I've heard that someone had problems using this method because Lacquer thinner could dammage plastic surfaces

cheers


I think this is the way for me, thanks to all for your contributions - you may have just opened the way to a load more questions from me

Cheers,

Steve


Glad I could help you

There's another fact that you have to consider.
What kind of seals does have your airbrush?
If it has Teflon seals, you won't have any problems using Tamiya primer,because Teflon actually is "lacquer proof"
Otherwise, if your AB has rubber seals, they could be ruined by the lacquer thinner

Be careful

Cheers
rebelsoldier
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Arizona, United States
Joined: June 30, 2004
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Posted: Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 03:18 AM UTC
i've had no probs with rattle can primer off the shelf at dollar general store automotive section. and there is a variety of colors as well.


reb
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