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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
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Silly Qs about German Army accessory colours
pigsty
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Posted: Sunday, May 01, 2011 - 11:03 PM UTC
I should know this, but I've started the old Italeri Puma and it occurs to me that I've not done any German armour for 25 years or more, so all my meagre knowledge has leaked out.

Jacks: painted, or not? And if painted: camouflage colour(s), or something else?

Fire extinguishers: red, black, camouflage colour, or other? And would they be plumbed in for activation from inside, as modern ones are, or just grabbed and used manually?

Help!
DutchBird
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Posted: Sunday, May 01, 2011 - 11:25 PM UTC
Not completely sure, but from what I remember of other occasions when these issues came up:

1) Allegedly it was normal for equipment to be painted over with the vehicle. This would suggest that jacks would be painted over as well.

2) Equipment could be lost and be replaced with new, which was not painted over.

1 and 2 suggest that the choice is yours. One of the reasons some modellers apperently have for not painting over equipment in camouflage colours is to to keep the model interesting for the viewer.


3) AFAIK fire extinguishers were painted dark green or olive green or something like that. Red fire extinguishers are allegedly a more recent phenomenon. And to my knowledge they would be operated manually after having been grabbed,
JGriffon
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Posted: Monday, May 02, 2011 - 07:39 AM UTC
Sorry but that is not correct. German equipment was painted at the place of manufacture and then shipped. German vehicles were painted without the equipment on the vehicle. In most cases if time allowed the crews removed this equipment when camo was applied in the field. Shovel,pick, and Ax heads were all painted black . Wooden handles were varnished wood. Pry bars and Jacks are also painted black. The head of the cable cutters are painted black but the handels are made of a resin impregnated paper material called "tufnell" and was a red, orange, brown color similar to red lead primer color. Poles attached to the bore cleaning brush were usually varnished wood with blackened metal ends, but latter in the war blackened metal poles also began to appear. The only item found on the outside of a german vehicle that was the color of the vehicle was the external fire extinguisher which was either panzer grey or armor sand. The black color mentioned above wasn't just flat black but had a metalic sheen to it as well. hope this helps!
JGriffon
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Posted: Monday, May 02, 2011 - 07:59 AM UTC
As an added note of interest, many of the german vets that I have known indicated to me that when vehicles arrived on the flat cars from the factory at the training areas, the external equipment was still in their original crates ontop or underneath the vehicles. leaving it to the crews to initially install this equipment.
exer
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Posted: Monday, May 02, 2011 - 08:57 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Sorry but that is not correct. German equipment was painted at the place of manufacture and then shipped. German vehicles were painted without the equipment on the vehicle.



I'm sorry but that is not correct either At least not in every case. There were pics posted recently either in one of the Tiger threads here on Armorama or on the Axis history forum of Tiger tanks that had been painted with all their equipment in place including the tow cables. You could could the outline of where the tow cables were after they had been taken ooff for use and then restowed.

I didn't bookmark them - maybe someone else did
JGriffon
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Posted: Monday, May 02, 2011 - 11:38 AM UTC
If you notice I did say "if time allowed the crews removed this equipment when camo was applied in the field" certainally there is always exception to the rule and certainly in combat the situation took presidence over policy. However, If it was german policy to over paint all equipment with the vehicle as in the U.S. or British military, then the surviving equipment would all have traces of the basic vehicle paints on them, as do equipment from the U.S. and British military but they do not. I recomend that instead of relying on what I might say or the opinion of others, spend some time reviewing photos of this equipment that is being sold on the internet and then decide for yourself.
DutchBird
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Posted: Monday, May 02, 2011 - 03:17 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Sorry but that is not correct. German equipment was painted at the place of manufacture and then shipped. German vehicles were painted without the equipment on the vehicle. In most cases if time allowed the crews removed this equipment when camo was applied in the field. Shovel,pick, and Ax heads were all painted black . Wooden handles were varnished wood. Pry bars and Jacks are also painted black. The head of the cable cutters are painted black but the handels are made of a resin impregnated paper material called "tufnell" and was a red, orange, brown color similar to red lead primer color. Poles attached to the bore cleaning brush were usually varnished wood with blackened metal ends, but latter in the war blackened metal poles also began to appear. The only item found on the outside of a german vehicle that was the color of the vehicle was the external fire extinguisher which was either panzer grey or armor sand. The black color mentioned above wasn't just flat black but had a metalic sheen to it as well. hope this helps!



Thanks for the info
pigsty
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Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 - 12:53 AM UTC
Thanks indeed - and there go all my cherished notions about equipment!

I forgot to ask: how about jerry cans? I faintly remember the use of a white cross to distinguish water from other fluids, but I can't for the life of me recall what the base colour(s) was/were.
JGriffon
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Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 - 01:02 PM UTC
Sean,
White crosses on jerry cans indicate that they have water in them, There seems to be four colors that German jerry cans seem to have been painted.
The vehicle color of Panzer Grey or Armor Sand depending on the time period, as well as light Field Grey which is a sage green color or dark field Grey that was almost a black shade of Green/Grey (mostly Green mixture).
RonV
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Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 - 02:14 PM UTC
Jacks were indeed often painted the vehicle color. I've seen many examples still sporting remnants of dark yellow or desert brown. I can't honestly say that I've seen any in original panzer gray though.

FWIW,
Ron Volstad
lukiftian
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Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 - 03:11 PM UTC
Straight from the factory they were the same color as German helmets, sort of a green drab. Otherwise, they could be whatever colour the crew fancied or had on hand.
pigsty
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Posted: Monday, May 09, 2011 - 08:56 AM UTC
Thank you all.
pigsty
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Posted: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - 12:54 AM UTC
One more question (in best Columbo voice).

The Puma has six smoke launchers on the turret, similar to those mounted on a Tiger. I've assumed that they shouldn't all be empty so have plugged a few with bits of plastic rod to represent unused smoke grenades. Does anyone know what colour they should be?
pigsty
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Posted: Monday, May 16, 2011 - 12:26 AM UTC

Quoted Text

One more question (in best Columbo voice).

The Puma has six smoke launchers on the turret, similar to those mounted on a Tiger. I've assumed that they shouldn't all be empty so have plugged a few with bits of plastic rod to represent unused smoke grenades. Does anyone know what colour they should be?


Anyone? Please?
Byrden
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Posted: Monday, May 16, 2011 - 02:32 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Anyone? Please?



Black.
And if you want to buy an empty one; I have no connection with this auction, and thanks to M. Breucque for pointing it out...

David
pigsty
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Posted: Thursday, May 19, 2011 - 09:19 PM UTC
Black ... obvious, really. Thanks!
pothead
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Posted: Monday, May 23, 2011 - 10:13 PM UTC
I agree with the colour of the fire extinguishers except that I believe that if they were kept inside the vehicle and not visible from the outside then they were kept in the original colours. Remember that the instruction panel would have been masked off and therefore visible on the finished extingusher. Archer Fine Transfers produce a set of 1/35 placards for German WW2 fire extinguishers.
pothead
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Posted: Monday, May 23, 2011 - 10:16 PM UTC
By the way after many years of modelling the most important lesson that I have learnt is that there is no such thing as a silly question so keep asking them. It is the only way to learn. Good luck on your project.
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