I'm building Scorpion from Operation Granby... I was thinking of using Verlinden set with it:



but I'm not sure if CVRt crew wore tankers helmets during the Gulf War... Most of my references show CVRt crew with infantry helmets. Can I use this set with my Scorpion? I know some Armorama members were in the Gulf during the time so perhaps you could help me.

Thanks,
Mario.

Sorry cant really see the pics, but if i can offer some advice. Ive mentioned to you that before i was in the Light infantry and have served in a armoured battalion, warrior, spartion, 432 etc and i can tell you this that the helmets are issued as part of your vehicle kit, but are very rarely used, in actual fact i can not remember any one using them, not even when learing to drive. Cant remember the point in wear ing them when we could easily use our issue helmets and leave the issued crew helmets in the stores. Less cahance of loosing them and being billed for them and believe me the British Army is very keen on billing their troops for lost kit.
But saying that you could use them and they wouldn't look out of place. Hope that helps.

Ah, I couldn't find larger pic of the set. Anyway, I think the figures wear this type of helmet:



If I understand you correctly, all CVRt crew memebers were issued this type of helmet, but they prefered to wear infantry type helmets. Were they more comfortable? It seems that when you put the headset under the infantry type helmet.. well, I don't think that could be comfortable. Am I wrong?

Anyway, the figs also have some communication things straped around their necks... one more thing I didn't find in my references. What is that?

Mario M.

From my experience I have always found that the crews of vehicles always were the helmets supplied and not the infantry style ones for exactly the reasons you stated and because they are lighter and smaller being designed to protect your head from bumps on the vehicle than debris of battle. By the way these helmets are referred to by the crew as bone-domes.
The item worn around the neck is a throat-mike. They work on the vibrations of the throat rather than th e volume of your voice. Also worn around the neck and hanging on the chest is the selector box. This allows you to speak on different radio nets and the vehicles occupants.
The only vehicles were infantry helmets are really worn are the soft skin vehicles and in the saxon APC.
Cheers
Robbo

Think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one,




Actually its not too bad, If you bear in mind that really other than the crew helmets there are only two other types of helmets issued. The standard helmet and the Para issue helmet. But both these helmets are designed to be worn whilst wearing the head sets for radios for obvious reasons. It is even possible to take out one of the ear pieces if not in use. The earpieces can be stripped down and attached internally to the helmet to avoid discomfort. (Although this was not really done because if your not wearing your helmet and need to use the radio then you've the trouble of piecing it back together).




No its not! Look at the picture there is no throat mic there, he is wearing a head set with mouth piece. The throat mic was only really used with the PRC 349 which is an infantry radio with a very limited range, you would work on a max distance on 1.5 km - dependent on terrain. Anything bigger than a 349 (350 upwards ) then you would use either a headset with the mouthpiece or a handset as generally the elstic on the throat mikes wouldn't stay the course and are far from ideal for the job in hand. But it does allow the wearer freedom of movement unless the elastic has gone.
The equipment around his neck is actually to replace the pressel switch on the radio set. Now assuming that this guy is a commander he will have a switch on the box which will allow him to either speak his crew over the vehichles intercom or he will be able to switch this to the radio set in his vehichle to cobtain comms with other call signs.




Again this is something i dont agree with, maybe in your unit it is an sop. But not in many others. I noticed that your reme, the units attached to us in germany prefered to use theyre own standard issue, but as i said above in my initial reply its down to personal preferences. As for the soft skinned and saxon, apv, snatch, light strike vehichles etc. Well you dont get issued crew helmets.

hope this helps
regards

I must concur on the throat mike item I just sort of went off on one without looking at the picture. Like you said we will have to agree/disagree on the helmet thing, having served with tankies, engineers, armoured recce, B-mech, mechanized and armoured infantry plus supporting other units I can only reflect on my experiences. As you rightly said softskin vehicles don't have alternative helmets, I was just giving an example of when you could see issued helmets used in vehicles (of course this would only be on exercise or deployments). How about the crew in AS90? Issue or bonedome?
Cheers
Robbo

Robbo,
AS90, got me on that could be both really, like i said personal preference. As an infanteer i was never near the AS90's. Heres a pic showing standard helmets though. (Op Telic)

also another of a tank crew with standard helmets on, again Op telic.

All my Gulf War 1 reference books show both types of helmet being worn by AFV crews. You'd be correct to depict either.

Petriburg
Ex Royal Horse Artillery

Nearly forgot... Check your refs to see when Scorpion was withdrawn from service. I recall Scimitars (30mm Rarden cannon) being out there, but not the Scorpion (76mm gun).

P

Thanks guys for the info... Although I still don't know what to do..




Op Granby was the last operation Scorpions were in... as I understand they were soon withdrawn from the active use due to their 76mm gun that was not under the Brit Army standards (noise, fumes etc..).

Mario M.

The Scorpion was withdrawn from British service, But as usual the British Army did not want to scrap these perfectly good vehicles just because the weapon system was no longer required. As the Scimitar with its Rarden 30mm cannon was so effective, the chassis of the Scorpion was taken and the turret of the Fox CVR(W) (another obsolete vehicle) also with the Rarden was added, this gave us the Sabre CVR(T). This vehicle performs the same role as the Scimitar. Really the only way to tell the difference visually is the bins around the turret, on the Sabre they are one bin on 3 sides of the turret were as on the Scimitar there are numerous bins. Also a turret height difference of 76MM due to a modified turret ring to accept the fox turret.
Just thought this was a point of interest.
Cheers
Robbo

The answer to the helmets/crew guards are that all RAC units have to wear the crew guards ( the photo of the tank is crew guards with issued helmet cover on it),
if its an issued helmet they are wearing then the headset is designed to fit underneath the helmet.
The crew guard headset is designed to clipped on the insde of the crew guard its self

The crews I served with (and I drove a 432 for a couple of years) wore the vehicle helmet while driving and then switched to the Infantry helmet while out of the vehicle.

The reason was, the crew helmet was plugged (via a removable lead) to the vehicle and it was much easier and quicker for us to swap helmets than unplug (not hard) and replug (trickier).

We generally had the headsets tied into the bone dome (aka tin lid) as well. There was no reason for a crew to be wearing headsets outside the vehicle as there was no external comms.

As far as I can remember Infantry only used Scimitars.

I actually got shot with a blank round from a Scorpion tank (in Belize) from a very close distance. Got deaf aids now.

Don't like Scorpions... Prefer scimitars... So there!

Well, here is my contribution to the discussion. Vehicle crew always use their helmets issued with the vehicle, and change to ordinary infantry helmets when outside.

Erik

You are talking apples and oranges. In the Army of Norway, this may be true. It is also true in the US Army. In the British Army, it looks like it is up to the individual crewman or command.

OT -- Why are the faces and patches blacked out in your photo? Don't get why people do this. Is it that big of a deal to show a soldier's face. You don't see them blacked out on the news from Iraq and Afghanistan, combat zones. I doubt anyone here on Armorama is going to hunt the soldier down and do him harm because he saw his picture here. I just don't get it.

Evening Gino
Well, as my "smiley" indicated, off topic. And I was talking about the Norwegian Army, sorry about the general term I used. I have to blame my english for that error. About the blackening - I don't have the soldiers permission to post their faces on the net - that's why they are blackened out. this is a common Norwegian rule.

Sorry, didn' mean to steal the string.

I am ex 2RTR. From what I know it depends if you are Inf or Armd as to helmets.

MBT and Recce (CVR(T)) wore Crew Helmets in my lot.

If I remember correctly, there was an attempt to standardize equipment with the new Mk6 Kevlar helmet. This included a version for AFVs' that had a slight cutout for the deeper headphones. Otherwise they look identical to the infantry version. Apparently the AFV bonedomes were not replaced on a one for one basis which is probably why you see a mix.

I dont think this is correct,

There are indeed bulges in the side of the Mk6 Inf helmet, but these are designed to accomodate infantry radio headsets, and to allow the fitting of the face shield/visor.

A PRR headset takes up most of the room in one, so i doubt you could fit the large AFV headsets in them.

Perhaps one of the tankie lads can confirm this

Regards

Joe

Well... Just goes to show you should never rely on your memory. Maybe this site might answer some questions: http://www.np-aerospace.co.uk/

It should be noted that the helmets shown in the site are naked(No camo covers). The tank crew helmet is the one currently in use, as is the MK6 for the infantry.