Hi Guys

Sorry if this has been asked before, I did search but didn't find an answer

What is the correct color for RAL8017 as used by Germany during the second world war from 1943 to 1945

Some paint makers for example Vallejo have it listed a Rotbraun (Red Brown)

Some paint makers for example Model Master have it listed as Chokolatbraun (Chocolate Brown).

The two example I have given are quite different in color so what is the correct one.

Thanks

paul

To add to the confusion, this site refers to 8017 by both names.

http://www.miniatures.de/colour-ral-farben.html

Based on this chart, Tamiya XF-64 is a red brown.

G

There isn't one. All there are are standards and conventions and German paint suppliers followed them as best they could especially after 1941.

I know that doesn't help when you're looking for an exact colour, but trust me on this one, unless the vehicle is pre-1940 the exact shade of brown doesn't matter much, it's the yellow that matters.

You could estimate the colour by mixing equal parts (in MM) schokoladen braun and burnt sienna. As the war progressed particularly after june 1944 any red brown was used including some primer colours, as if green is added to a primer red you can create a red-brown.

RAL 8017 Rotbraun is the correct color. Other RAL numbers or the name "Chokolatbraun" do not appear in any of the Inspektorate 2 painting orders so are not authentic. Stick with the Vallejo recommendation.

Or do this if you're using acrylics

Not to add to the confusion here, but isn't Rotbraun, RAL 8012?


According to the paint chart I use:

http://www.paint4models.com

Rotbraun/Red Brown is RAL 8012, and while the chart hasn't been updated with the new Vallejo Primers, their new Surface Primer #73605 RAL 8012 German Red Brown is supposed to replicate this color.

RAL 8017 is listed as Schokoladen-braun/Chocolate Brown, and in the Vallejo line is represented by 3 colors according to the chart:

Model Color 872 Chocolate Brown (I assume this would probably be the closest)

Model Color 941 Burnt Umber

Model Color 984 Flat Brown

Hello!

I have my RAL paint chips in front of me.
RAL 8012 is a warm tone, medium-dark red brown. Very similar to a cherry red pair of Martens boots in color and depth.
RAL 8017 is a little cooler in tone, a little purplish, and much darker. Looks like the darkened version of 8012, almost exactly Van Dyke Brown. I guess in 1/35 it will appear too dark, especially next to a faded panzer yellow, but it is a question of taste. It looks like walnut stain.

I hope it helps.

Just to be even more confused I always thought RAL 8012 was Red oxide as in primer?

Paul

The reason for all of this confusion is that the RAL charts for the WWII era were issued in June 1932 and February 10th, 1941.

Rotoxid was RAL 8013.
Dunkelgelb was RAL 7028
Olivgrun was RAL 6003
Rotbraun was RAL 8017

The RAL charts were changed and revised in 1953 and 1961. Numbers, names, and colors were changed, switched, swapped, added, or dropped. Unfortunately, having a new RAL paint chip set is completely useless in identifying 1941 colors except by side-by-side color comparison.

This explains why MM calls it RAL 8017 Chocolate, since they found the original 1941 RAL number without knowing that it now belonged to another color.
In the research and color testing with Vallejo, I always listed it as RAL 8017 Rotbraun. The color is perfect, but I guess someone at the factory saw that on his RAL chart Red Brown is RAL 8012 and changed it. Oh well.

Red Oxide's number is now RAL 3009. It is a deep red, not a brown at all. Take a look at these photos of original paint, stored indoors - http://jtrowbridge5.smugmug.com/Stug3inoriginalcolours/photos-of-Don-Moriarti-Dontos/16622404_q4tvqN#1252719443_hzHW9kF