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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
How do you all keep MM Acryl from drying...
GALILEO1
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Maryland, United States
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Posted: Thursday, May 12, 2011 - 05:44 AM UTC
How do you all keep MM Acryl from drying in the a/b so quickly even when using retarder? I've finally been able to decipher the right consistency for a smooth application but I simply can't find methods to stop the paint from drying so soon.

I've been testing MM Acryl now for two months using every medium imaginable to thin it (i.e. windshield fluid, MM Acryl thinner, 91% alcohol, distilled water, etc) but, even when adding retarder to these mediums, the paint still dries simply too quickly in the brush for me to do much on the model. I keep hearing some folks say they never have problems shooting this paint so I'd like to know the secret.

I'm testing the paint as I'd like to know all I can about it being that I want to make it my primary paint line as I have it readily available.

Any feedback will be really appreciated!

Rob
melonhead
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Posted: Thursday, May 12, 2011 - 11:11 AM UTC
is it drying in the cup or in the nozzel? if its drying in the nozel, from what ive learned, the air pressure may be too high. the amount of air coming out may be drying the paint on the needle and may also cause a grainy finish
retiredyank
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Posted: Thursday, May 12, 2011 - 11:22 AM UTC
I spray at about 15-20psi for MM acryls and have never had a problem
GALILEO1
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Posted: Thursday, May 12, 2011 - 11:32 AM UTC

Quoted Text

is it drying in the cup or in the nozzel? if its drying in the nozel, from what ive learned, the air pressure may be too high. the amount of air coming out may be drying the paint on the needle and may also cause a grainy finish



It's drying at the nozzle. And I do normally spray at between 12 to 15 PSI or so. I never go above 20 so I don't get why I am still having these problems.

Thanks,

Rob
GALILEO1
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Posted: Thursday, May 12, 2011 - 11:33 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I spray at about 15-20psi for MM acryls and have never had a problem



See, this are the types of statements that make me think I may be doing something wrong.

What do you use to thin your MM Acryl, Matt? Would love to know the secret.

Thanks,

Rob
retiredyank
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Posted: Thursday, May 12, 2011 - 11:50 AM UTC
I use distilled water at about 60:40 water:paint and do several light coats. Maybe you just got a bad jar?
kbm
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Posted: Thursday, May 12, 2011 - 02:47 PM UTC
Hi Rob:

Like you, I have always had problems with MM Acryl paints drying on the airbrush nozzle or clogging and then spattering, etc. I had the most luck using windshield washer fluid, but even then, it was inconsistent. So, I ended up just giving up on MM and switching entirely to Tamiya for airbrushing. I still use my MM Acryls for brush painting, at least until they are used up. Now, whenever I need to replace or add a color for brush painting, I buy Vallejo.

I know this is not the answer you are looking for, but maybe it is time to make the switch to something new?

Keith
MacTrucks
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Indiana, United States
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Posted: Thursday, May 12, 2011 - 03:54 PM UTC
I've had mixed results with MM acrylics in a Testor/Aztec airbrush myself. Just a few observations on what others have suggested.

First of all, what is the relative humidity? Hard to believe, but I've been able to paint with MM acrylics on very hot humid days in the middle of summer in my garage. On dry, winter days, I tend to have clogging issues.

How old are the paints? Not just when you bought them at the hobby shop since unfortunately, some paints gather dust at the hobby shops and can start to go bad. I had one that I tried to paint with this winter that gave me fits. I bought a new bottle and had no further issues. The thing literally was drying rock hard within seconds of starting spraying. The initial spraying quickly became spattered and such just before it dried out.

What nozzle are you using? Testor/Aztec made special acrylic nozzles that are slightly different and tend to clog less.

What are you using to clean your airbrush? I swear I've had residue from switching back and forth from acrylics that caused be fits between the paints. I try begin each airbrush session by spraying some solvent/thinner through the clean airbrush just to be on the safe side.

Finally what are you using as a retarder and how old is it? With the right stuff you should be okay. At one time I had original MM acryls (talk about difficult) and their reformulated versions. The associated thinner/reducers were not compatible at all, but I honestly didn't know they had a retarder formulated for them. Guess my now-defunct local hobby shop never carried it and I never considered it.
GALILEO1
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Posted: Friday, May 13, 2011 - 06:22 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I use distilled water at about 60:40 water:paint and do several light coats. Maybe you just got a bad jar?



Thanks, Matt. I tried it with distilled water and the same thing happened. Old jar? Don't know but probably....



Quoted Text

Hi Rob:

Like you, I have always had problems with MM Acryl paints drying on the airbrush nozzle or clogging and then spattering, etc. I had the most luck using windshield washer fluid, but even then, it was inconsistent. So, I ended up just giving up on MM and switching entirely to Tamiya for airbrushing. I still use my MM Acryls for brush painting, at least until they are used up. Now, whenever I need to replace or add a color for brush painting, I buy Vallejo.

I know this is not the answer you are looking for, but maybe it is time to make the switch to something new?



You know, Keith, you're right...I think I may be at that point already. There's nothing (and I mean nothing) I've tried that has allowed me to get the paint to not dry within a couple of minutes. I've been able to get it to shoot fairly smoothly but just after a couple of minutes the a/b gets clogged completely. As mentioned, I've been testing - almost on a daily basis - each and all characteristics of this paint but the fast drying simply does not go away, even with a retarder and flow enhancer.



Quoted Text

I've had mixed results with MM acrylics in a Testor/Aztec airbrush myself. Just a few observations on what others have suggested.

First of all, what is the relative humidity? Hard to believe, but I've been able to paint with MM acrylics on very hot humid days in the middle of summer in my garage. On dry, winter days, I tend to have clogging issues.

How old are the paints? Not just when you bought them at the hobby shop since unfortunately, some paints gather dust at the hobby shops and can start to go bad. I had one that I tried to paint with this winter that gave me fits. I bought a new bottle and had no further issues. The thing literally was drying rock hard within seconds of starting spraying. The initial spraying quickly became spattered and such just before it dried out.

What nozzle are you using? Testor/Aztec made special acrylic nozzles that are slightly different and tend to clog less.

What are you using to clean your airbrush? I swear I've had residue from switching back and forth from acrylics that caused be fits between the paints. I try begin each airbrush session by spraying some solvent/thinner through the clean airbrush just to be on the safe side.

Finally what are you using as a retarder and how old is it? With the right stuff you should be okay. At one time I had original MM acryls (talk about difficult) and their reformulated versions. The associated thinner/reducers were not compatible at all, but I honestly didn't know they had a retarder formulated for them. Guess my now-defunct local hobby shop never carried it and I never considered it.



I shoot in my basement (not really a basement but more like a ground floor in a split-level house) so it's never truly really dry or really humid. I have no idea how old the paints are but I know I got the ones I've used the same day the LHS received them. Re. the nozzle, I'm shooting with an Iwata Revolution CR with a .5mm nozzle/needle so it should not clog as much as it does.

The main thing I use to clean the a/b after shooting is Windex as it's extremely hard to get all that stuff out once dried. After I thoroughly clean the a/b with Windex and distilled water, I run a little lacquer thinner to make sure everything is gone.

Lastly, I've used Liquitex Slow-Dri and even Liquitex Flow Aide but even with these I'm still having issues.

Rob
panzerbob01
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Posted: Friday, May 13, 2011 - 09:10 AM UTC
Rob;

I've used MM acryls several times and found them mostly pretty pleasing. I DID find that they like being thinned - usually I go closer to 2 parts 35% isopropyl alcohol (the cheap 70% split w/ distilled water) to 1 part really well-mixed paint. I generally shoot at around 15 psi - less when doing small areas - so maybe MM likes lower pressures, too. The relative humidity and temperature do matter - I try to paint when it is cooler and when it is a little moister / more humid.

I did get some clogging in my Iwata HPCS w/ 0.5mm needle... I found that I could avoid this issue almost entirely by finishing-off a spray-stint or pass with "spraying" a blast of air to clear paint off the AB tip. That, and occasionally I dip the AB nozzle into a small cup of alcohol and swirl it around, and follow with a blast of air...

Maybe this would help in your case?

Bob
lukiftian
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Posted: Friday, May 13, 2011 - 04:44 PM UTC
Switch to Pollyscale.
GALILEO1
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Maryland, United States
Joined: April 18, 2006
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Posted: Saturday, May 14, 2011 - 02:47 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Rob;

I've used MM acryls several times and found them mostly pretty pleasing. I DID find that they like being thinned - usually I go closer to 2 parts 35% isopropyl alcohol (the cheap 70% split w/ distilled water) to 1 part really well-mixed paint. I generally shoot at around 15 psi - less when doing small areas - so maybe MM likes lower pressures, too. The relative humidity and temperature do matter - I try to paint when it is cooler and when it is a little moister / more humid.

I did get some clogging in my Iwata HPCS w/ 0.5mm needle... I found that I could avoid this issue almost entirely by finishing-off a spray-stint or pass with "spraying" a blast of air to clear paint off the AB tip. That, and occasionally I dip the AB nozzle into a small cup of alcohol and swirl it around, and follow with a blast of air...

Maybe this would help in your case?

Bob



Thanks for the feedback, Bob. I haven't tried the 70% stuff yet so that will be added to the list of thinning mediums to try. I was told, somewhere, that the 70% stuff wasn't good so I stayed away from it. The 91% stuff made the paint flow really smooth - which I liked - but only for about a minute. After that, I could no longer spray. The ground floor of the house is always cooler but Idon't think is very moist. Perhaps this is part of the problem but I've always been able to spray all types of paints there including Tamiya and Vallejo Air with no problems. This leads me to believe that it may simply be an issue with the MM Acryl. I'll try the 70% stuff to see how it goes. Thanks again,

Rob
GALILEO1
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Posted: Sunday, May 15, 2011 - 04:19 PM UTC
THAT'S IT!!! I'm DONE with MM Acryl! Just simply can't get alone with these paints. I've tried everything under the sun - FOR TWO MONTHS - to get along with them and although I've manage to get them to lay down smoothly on plastic they simply dry too darn quick clogging everything in site and making cleanup a hassle. Will be looking to ordering Vallejo paints it seems so I hope they don't cause me issues.

Where can I get Vallejo primer (and paints) in the U.S.?

Rob
retiredyank
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Posted: Sunday, May 15, 2011 - 07:10 PM UTC
I remembered that I also dilute the paint in the bottle at about 10:1. If you can't stand it anymore, just search for "Vallejo paint" on Google.
GALILEO1
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Posted: Monday, May 16, 2011 - 08:37 AM UTC
Yeah, I've tried diluting but that isn't really the problem or why I've had it with MM Acryl. I am able to spray the paint smoothly on plastic so that isn't the issue. My biggest complaint at this point is just the quick drying and the overall fragility of the paint. This thing clogs my a/b after only about a minute or so of starting a session. I end up having to back-trigger to shoot out the dry paint to be able to continue and that, in and of itself, is a pain. Couple that with the fact that cleaning the brush becomes a royal pain in the rear I realized I simply don't have the energy to fight with this paint each time I have to use it. I never have issues with Tamiya or other paints I've sprayed so it tells me that there really is something wrong with Acryl. No more for me. Onto other more pleasurable paints..

Rob
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