The title is not mine, the whole analysis is not mine either. What I am posting here is a some points of a review of Lifecolor's set "WWII Soviet Army camouflage set" by Alexander Akanikhin (the owner of AKAN brand). I would like to bring it to your attention, because every time I visit modeling shows I see Soviet/Russian armor painted in all possible shades of green. (We could probably arrange models in something like a rainbow if it wasn't just green colors.)
Anyhow... Alexander talks about this set

He is not talking about the paint itself. Everyone knows the quality is one of the highest on the market. The question is the colors.
The box says "6 authentic acrylic colors". How authentic are they? It looks like the manufacturer assures us that those are the exact colors used in WWII. What "olive" colors (UA #237 and 238) got to do with soviet WWII camouflage? Color UA #240 4BG: why do they call it "Light Khaki"? The proper name for it is "4БГ - авто-защитный" (4BG - avto-zaschitniy). It was not used for armor.

Then Alexander offers to compare the colors given by Lifecolor to the real ones using their digital equivalents.
On the left - real colors. On the right - the ones offered in the set.



4BO and FS34257 (same as 14257):

And what is 4BO var.? Variation of 4BO? One of the vesions of a same color? Or is it a paint for those who supports the belief that soviet tanks were painted with whatever paint factory could come up with?

4BG:


6K that for some reason named "6RP":


And 7K with the wrong name also:


The purpose of this post was not to offend anyone here or the Lifecolor. The purpose of this was to make modelers aware of what they are buying.
Make your own conclusions.
Thank you, and I hope this information will help some of you.

This is always good stuff to talk about.

I do have a question, and perhaps a silly one, but I am wondering if they have adjusted the colors to account for scale affect? I find that kind of hard to believe, especially with FS 23578 and FS 30117, but it is a thought.

Yes, Jeremy, that could be possible as a theory. But I never seen a paint being already adjusted for a certain scale. Is that really possible? And which scale? 1/16, 35, 48 or 72? Or 144?
And if that is what they did, wouldn't they write it on the cover?

Even if we can assume that UA 240 was adjusted for some small scale, the rest of them definitely were not.

I might be wrong but something tells me they got their ideas from here - http://www.4bogreen.com/colors But even so, at least Neil Stokes calls 7K its proper name - Yellow Earth. Where did the "Green Yellow" came from?

Hi Alex

I have a question for you
As far as you know mr Alexander Akanikhin has compared only the color charts with real colors or he sprayed the LC colors before doing his test?
I'm asking that to you because, as you know for sure, color charts usually are very different from the paint inside the bottles.
Well, I know, I've noticed that they don't match at all with the reference charts, but anyway, this could be another possibility to explayn an embarassing error like this ...

Anyway, If I were you (or if i were Alexander Akanikhin) I'd advise them. Lifecolor company is very interested about the quality of its products. I think it coul be better for them knowing the test results

Thanks a milion to both of you for the review

cheers

Hey, Mauro!
He said he did not tested paints of this particular set. He noticed the ad: http://www.astromodel.it/catalog/product/gallery/id/2375/image/5034/ And since Lifecolor used FS system to represent their colors, he compared their digital equivalents. On the FS color charts you can always find sRGB or Lab color numbers.
Even if actual colors of the Lifecolor paints will not match digital FS colors I would not bet any money on them matching actual soviet colors. Again, how can someone try to reproduce soviet colors using the standards of US? Did they used an actual FS fan deck to compare them, or just took FS numbers from Neil's article?

Still, what is 4BO var? Is it 4BO or not?
As I said in my first post: this is just an info for my fellow modelers. Everyone will make his own conclusions.

Yes, ww2 russian colors is a complicated matter.
Mybe LC could ask for advices to a russian army expert. But maybe it would be too difficult or too expensive, to be honest I don't know

In many cases (like this, for exemple) the use of federal standard is not completely correct, but on the other hand maybe it's the only way to adopt a reference standard which everyone can share...In fact the star next to the FS number means that the reference number is close to the color but it isn't the same

Anyway although I like a lot LC paints, personally I don't like the "whole dedicated sets". It seems to me that they keep some paints from their range and they just change their names

So for example modellers have already had in their stash a FS 34087 paint, but they HAVE to buy a dedicated set because there is an "US OLIVE DRAB" in the box...
That are only marketing tricks in my humble opinion

cheers Alex

well, as far as I remember Alexander claims that he is the only producer of authentic colors and the others do not understand anything

So, lets get this clear.

This is a review/criticism of a range of paints done by looking at on screen colour charts etc. without actually seeing what's inside the pots and applying them, then comparing to actual samples, written by a rival manufacturer of paints.

Now would you call that an unbiased, non vested interest piece

this is a 100% biased. Same as comparison of Vallejo and MIG pigments on MIG productions website... this is just business.

Misters, good evening! Don't swear on me - English language I do not know absolutely. I use translate.ru and the exact sense of my posts will be combined. On it I will attach also the original text of the answer.
Господа, добрый вечер! Не ругайтесь на меня - английский язык не знаю совсем. Пользуюсь translate.ru и точный смысл моих постов будет сложен. По этому я буду прикреплять и оригинальный текст ответа.



Yes, I will agree with you - not idle time. But I am engaged in it a lot of time and for each of us any known business - simple, and unfamiliar - difficult.
Да, соглашусь с вами - не простое. Но я этим занимаюсь много времени и для каждого из нас любое известное дело - простое, а незнакомое - сложное.

About as safely you show the care of my modest results! Don't indulge me, after all statements of my admirers can be equal to my words!
But I so never spoke...
О, как смело вы показываете свою заботу о моих скромных результатах! Не балуйте меня, ведь высказывания моих почитателей могут быть приравнены к моим словам!
Но я так никогда не говорил...

I have found that the colours on the box front of LifeColor set is not the best indicator of the colour you will get when sprayed or brushed but I have purchased a few of them and been happy thus far. I am in no way going to criticise your work as I am not familiar with it, but I do suggest that you spray their paint and then asses the final colour before judging it.

Please keep this topic civil

That is, you are declined, what it is pure business and history researches in these sets are absent?
Let's admit.. But it would be desirable to specify - who saw really colors 4БО, 6К and 7К. I suggested to spend comparison of color with the original which is at me. Also didn't spend comparison with paint АКАН.
То есть, вы склоняетесь, что это чистый бизнес и исследования истории в этих наборах отсутствуют?
Допустим. Но хотелось бы уточнить - кто видел реально цвета 4БО, 6К и 7К. Я предлагал провести сравнение цвета с оригиналом, который есть у меня. И не проводил сравнение с краской АКАН.

Paint LifeColor - is fine. But we discuss accuracy of color and correct historical treatment.
Unless the paint would become worse, if it has precisely rendered real color? Here if color would be historically correct, is confirmed by researches paint LifeColor from it strongly would win! And I only would be glad.
Краска LifeColor - прекрасна. Но мы обсуждаем точность цвета и правильную историческую трактовку.
Разве краска стала бы хуже, если бы она точно передала реальный цвет? Вот если бы цвет был бы исторически правильным, подтверждена исследованиями, то краска LifeColor от этого бы сильно выиграла! И я бы только был рад.

Darren, everything is civil here so far. Alexander is not trying to offend anybody, but with his knowledge of English he may not know the meaning of some words he is using. I live in US for almost 18 years now, and I still have problems with it.

Here are some of the points he sent to me earlier today, but I didn't have time to come here and translate:

1) The picture of the model on the box doesn't show colors very different from FS colors next to it.
2) 3 colors have nothing to do with the theme of a set. I will be especially thankful to a person who who can prove my research to be wrong.
3) If the star (*) next to FS numbers means the colors are not exact as those numbers, what was the point of using them?
4) If those colors were compared by its lightness, the mistakes are noticeable. The comparison by the color tone is obviously wrong.
5) The competition is a good thing. It doesn't let make big mistakes.
6) Results of measurements of real colors were compared with FS fan deck for the analysis in the first post.
7) Yes, AKAN does have those colors. They were developed through a research using an actual color samples and documentation.
8) I am not trying to compare paints of different manufacturers. The colors are compared to the actual 4BO, 4BG, 6K and 7K.
9) In conversation on a russian modeler's forum I said that manufacturer should be given a chance to correct mistakes.
10) At this point I am not trying to push my point of view, I am just trying to compare the truth and a business.
The answer to the point "This is a review/criticism of a range of paints done by looking at on screen colour charts etc. without actually seeing what's inside the pots and applying them..." is:
Yes! why would you buy the paints if their colors look nothing like what you need.

I am personally not sure about any vested interest. As far as I know, paints AKAN are not sold much outside of former USSR.
BTW, guys, this whole topic is for people who are concerned with historical accuracy. That is why I posted it here in the first place. I have seen Panthers painted in Panzer Gray, I have seen T-34 painted in green which is almost neon like... Just last week one of my friends told me on Facebook, that now he knows what "I" in ISU-152 stands for - it's "istrebitel'naya" (истребительная). Really?

Alex my request is just a caution to keep it civil.

My point is that this so called review/criticism of Lifecolor paints has been done without seeing the paints or applying them and then comparing them in any way to actual correct paint samples. Lifecolors paints are being held up in judgement by someone who hasn't actually seen or used the paints themselves.

The other point is that its a well known and very appropriate business practice not to try to gain sales or to be seen to try to do so, by discrediting ones competitors. Better any review is done by an unbiased, independent, person or group.

You can judge a color by its digital rendering. You can't even judge a color by the color swatch on the bottle or the color the paint appears to be in the bottle. However, I can see the point in buying a FS color that is almost accurrate. The closer to accurrate, the less mixing you will have to do to achieve, what you believe, to be the correct color. The easiest way to achieve the correct color is by obtaining an original color swatch and not be to modest in your ability to mix paints to achieve the correct color. The only time I don't mix my own colors, is when I agree with the directions. Research, research, research. I also believe that the tractor factories did not have a standard for 4BO green and applied the version they had on hand. This is typical of all militaries worldwide. To achieve 4BO green I would just mix a little yellow(about 8%) with MM OD. To be honest, I stumbled upon a very close match at a hardware store. And, the point of all of this is, "everybody is correct".

Alan, I agree with you 100%. But do you know of any reliable research on the subject of 4bo and Soviet WWII camo done in the west? I don't.

Misters! The appeal is given the deputy the editor - let's discuss and remain without early conclusions within the limits of decency. Without transitions to persons.
1) I didn't work as a paint from this set am the fact.
2) On a box it is written "6 authentic colors" - I can I am mistaken? But deception - not civilized method though we will apply in business.
3) 3 colors from 6 don't concern the declared theme of a set!. Two of them "Olive drabe" - what concern? In the USSR of paints with such name wasn't and till now isn't present.
4) In offered paint Green-yellow "it is not visible to any greens. On the contrary - it of warm colors. Paints with such name in a binding with"7К"- weren't applied to a camouflage of armor of the USSR!
5) Authenticity of 3 colors, namely: 4БО, 6К, and 7К can't maintain any criticism. There are references to the nearest FS. You want to learn, what FS are closest from me? Or if I can't be considered at your forum how equal on a voice and having a research wide experience always it is possible to justify certain "competition"?
6) Colours FS can not coincide with color of a paint on a jar? And for what then instructions on them are given? On how many they can not coincide? Really the big difference on the color, offered by me isn't visible? It turns out, what in catalog FS there are no other suitable colors? Strange? Thus their authenticity causes the big question in connection with a binding to any numbers FS. At аутентика there can be a coincidence only with the color standard on which it has been made or to the real sample. But anything it on a box it is not written and it is not told anywhere, what degree of a deterioration there were initial samples?
7) Who from you a sign with researches of company LifeColor in the field of exact colors?
8) Such researches exist on the offered paints from the given set?
9) it is possible you don't know, how the technics and a paint for it in the USSR during this period and till now was made? But then pertinently to address for the help information to the manufacturer of this set. Аутентики can't be made without authentic samples of color.
10) "In the USSR the technics painted anyhow and than has got" is a usual joke, when there is no elementary knowledge with the validity, don't take offense.
Actually, I wanted to discuss these and other questions with you if it is interesting.

Господа! Призыв дан зам. редактора - давайте без скороспелых выводов дискутировать и оставаться в рамках приличия. Без переходов на личности.
1) Я не работал краской из этого набора - это факт.
2) На коробке написано " 6 аутентичных цветов" - может я ошибаюсь? Но введение в заблуждение - не цивилизованный метод, хотя и применим в бизнесе.
3)3 цвета из 6 не имеют отношения к заявленной теме набора!. Два из них "Olive drabe" - к чему относятся? В СССР красок с таким названием не было и до сих пор нет.
4) В предложенной краске Green-yellow" не видно никакой зелени. Напротив - она теплых тонов. Краски с таким названием в привязке с "7К" - не применялись для камуфляжа бронетехники СССР!
5) Аутентичность 3 цветов, а именно: 4БО, 6К, и 7К не может выдерживать никакой критики. Есть ссылки на ближайший FS. Вы хотите узнать, какие FS наиболее близки от меня? Или если меня нельзя на вашем форуме рассматривать, как равного по голосу и имея богатый опыт исследования, то всегда можно оправдать некой "конкуренцией"?
6) Цвета FS могут не совпасть с цветом краски на баночке? А для чего тогда даны указания на них? На сколько они могут не совпасть? Неужели не видна большая разница по цвету, предложенная мной? Получается, что в каталоге FS нет других подходящих цветов? Странно? При этом их аутентичность вызывает большой вопрос именно в связи с привязкой к каким бы то ни было номерам FS. У аутентика может быть совпадение только с эталоном цвета, по которому он был сделан или реальному образцу. Но ничего этого на коробке не написано и нигде не сказано, какой степени изношенности были исходные образцы?
7) Кто из вас знаком с исследованиями компании LifeColor в области точных цветов?
8) Такие исследования существуют по предложенным краскам из данного набора?
9) Возможно вы не знаете, как изготавливалась техника и краска для неё в СССР в тот период и до сих пор? Но тогда уместно обратиться за справочной информацией к изготовителю этого набора. Аутентики не могут быть сделаны без достоверных образцов цвета.
10) "В СССР технику красили как попало и чем попало" - это обычный анекдот, когда нет элементарных познаний с действительностью, не обижайтесь.
Собственно, эти и другие вопросы я хотел обсудить с вами, если это интересно.

Olive drab does seem an odd colour to include in a Russian paint set but it can be justified with vehicles from the US/UK being given to Russia during WW2.

I was quite surprised that your paint line is not really seen in the west can I suggest you consider sending some samples to James Bella for review purposes.

Yes, correct Darren. Thousands and thousands of vehicles supplied to the USSR in WW2 were painted Olive Drab.

The use of the FS standard to produce the colours is totally justified as it is not just a US system but a system that can take any colour and put it into a code for you.

Even if you have colour pictures from the era, which would have been exceedingly rare, I doubt whether anyone can tell you the exact colours used on any Soviet WW2 vehicle unless you can find a very well preserved vehicle and chip off the paints applied later and see the coats underneath, and even then they would have been changed over the years as well.

IMHO until someone invents a time machine to go back and have a look at the vehicles almost any green can be justified..

I agree.
I know that all of you have already known that numbers in FS have a meaning
But anyway I try to repeat for those who haven't known yet the code

First number is the glossiness
1gloss
2 satin
3matt

Second number is the color
0 Brown
1 red
2 orange
3 yellow
4 green
5 blue
6 gray
7 black white and metal
8 day gloo colors

Next 3 numbers
from 000 very dark
to 999 very light

So this is a method which can identify almost ALL THE COLORS in the word
and its use is more or less always justified

If a star is near to the Fs, it means that a color is very close to a Fs code exhisting but is a little bit different (to light or to dark, the next 3 numbers)

@ Alexander Akanikhin
Nice to meet you. I think that all the modellers who are interested in russian armours could be very glad to use yours paints and I'm almost sure that they could be very interested to know the researches about the russian color appareances
In my opinion it could be very interesting seeing a review which could explain in a more exhaustive way, why the LC russian color paints are incorrect and what would be the correct color.
I hope you'll be able to do it. As I said it would be incredibly interesting for all the forum owners.

Regards

as long as you are representative of a competing company your comparison is BIASED. that's my point. Same applies to MIG (I mentioned previously).
Пока вы являетесь представителем конкурирующей компании ваше сравнение не может быть независимым. Вот о чем я писал. Тоже самое касается миг.