AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Matthew Toms
blending oils/enamels
Belt_Fed
New Jersey, United States
Joined: February 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,325 posts
Joined: February 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,325 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 22, 2011 - 01:20 PM UTC
whenever i try to blend oils or enamels, the brush seems to just wipe off all the paint. I dont get a nice subtle gradation. Any tips?
drumthumper
Kansas, United States
Joined: December 22, 2004
KitMaker: 392 posts
Armorama: 227 posts
Joined: December 22, 2004
KitMaker: 392 posts
Armorama: 227 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 22, 2011 - 03:13 PM UTC
Jon,
Can you be a bit more specific ... what are you painting (figures, armor, etc), and what brand paint and thinner are you using?
Kirchoff
Can you be a bit more specific ... what are you painting (figures, armor, etc), and what brand paint and thinner are you using?
Kirchoff
Paul-H
United Kingdom
Joined: April 02, 2010
KitMaker: 234 posts
Armorama: 207 posts
Joined: April 02, 2010
KitMaker: 234 posts
Armorama: 207 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 22, 2011 - 07:35 PM UTC
Hi
Use less thinner and a lighter blending action with a quality soft brush.
Also remember if you are using enamels for your base coat to use a clear barrier coat to stop you removing base coat as well.
You will need to use either an acrylic or lacquer barrier coat to protect the base from any oil or enamel weathering product.
Hope this has been of help
Paul
Use less thinner and a lighter blending action with a quality soft brush.
Also remember if you are using enamels for your base coat to use a clear barrier coat to stop you removing base coat as well.
You will need to use either an acrylic or lacquer barrier coat to protect the base from any oil or enamel weathering product.
Hope this has been of help
Paul
Belt_Fed
New Jersey, United States
Joined: February 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,325 posts
Joined: February 02, 2008
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Armorama: 1,325 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 22, 2011 - 11:51 PM UTC
It seems that there is barely any thinner on the brush.
I am using Klean Strip mineral spirits and oils from 502 and Winsor and Newton
I am using Klean Strip mineral spirits and oils from 502 and Winsor and Newton
SdAufKla
South Carolina, United States
Joined: May 07, 2010
KitMaker: 2,238 posts
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Joined: May 07, 2010
KitMaker: 2,238 posts
Armorama: 2,158 posts
Posted: Monday, May 23, 2011 - 02:15 AM UTC
Quoted Text
It seems that there is barely any thinner on the brush.
I am using Klean Strip mineral spirits and oils from 502 and Winsor and Newton
Hi Jon,
What kind of "blending" are you doing? Are you trying to use the oils to dry brush, for "oil-dot" modulation, rust / dirt streaking, general washes, pin washes, etc?
For dry-brushing, you shouldn't have any thinners in the brush. Even the little left from cleaning the brush to change colors is enough to strip away all of the previous work. When changing colors (if using oils to dry brush), simply wipe the brush off on a clean rag or paper towel.
For streaking, apply the oils straight / full strength to the surface (just a small dot or dab), then streak downwards with either a dry brush or one that is only slightly dampened with thinners (dip in thinners, then dry / wipe off as much as you can - there will still be enough left). The more thinners, the lighter, more transparent the streaking effect. If you "streak" across previously aplied oils that have not dried, they will streak and blend as well.
For "oil dot" modulation, you also apply the paint full-strength, but depending on the desired final effect, you might dampen the model surface first with thinners (or not, as the case my be). You then use a brush either dampened, wet, or loaded with thinners, again depending on the desired effect, to blend out almost all of the oil paint pigments, leaving only a slight "color staining" of the base coat colors.
For blending out washes, you have to judge the amount of drying that has taken place after you apply them. They can be blended away almost completely when very wet / damp (like "oil dot" color modulation), or streaked with quite a bit of opacity if allowed to dry some and using a dry (no thinners) brush.
Any clear or barrier coats applied before you use the oils will effect the blending in that the glossier the barrier, the less the oil colors will "stick" or "stain" the previous layers. The flatter the barrier coats, the opposite is true, and the oil colors will more easily stick and stain to them. This means that a brush with the same amount of thinners will work differently on oils over a glossy surface versus oils over a flat surface.
Oils have the advantage of long working times and blending into almost completely transparent layers of color. The downside is that they are very delicate until fully dry. You might have to spray clear barrier coats over earlier oil paint effects to preserve them from later applications of thinners, etc. However, by planning out the sequence that you're going to use, you should try to avoid this, when possible, to keep from addting too much paint and hiding details.
BTW: I also use ordinary house hold mineral sprits to thin and blend oils and W&N and Grumbacher oil paints, so the issue is probably not what you're using, but more the technique that you're using.
I think once you play around with the oils some more, you'll develop your own feel for how they work with your finishing styles and techniques. They are very forgiving, flexible, and subtile once you get used to using them.
HTH,
Posted: Monday, May 23, 2011 - 03:21 AM UTC
Quoted Text
whenever i try to blend oils or enamels, the brush seems to just wipe off all the paint. I dont get a nice subtle gradation. Any tips?
It seems that there is barely any thinner on the brush.
There shouldn´t be any thinner on your brush. Just wipe the brush dy on some old rag. Even if the brush has some colour left, it should matter. When working with both, you have time. Oils should should actually be left for a short time to allow them to adhere. You can also mix enamels and oils, so you increase the enamel time and/or shorten the oil drying time.
Belt_Fed
New Jersey, United States
Joined: February 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,325 posts
Joined: February 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,325 posts
Posted: Monday, May 23, 2011 - 08:07 AM UTC
thank you all for the help. time to go practice
melonhead
Wisconsin, United States
Joined: July 29, 2010
KitMaker: 662 posts
Armorama: 457 posts
Joined: July 29, 2010
KitMaker: 662 posts
Armorama: 457 posts
Posted: Monday, May 23, 2011 - 09:12 AM UTC
number one thing that you need to do is have a basecoat. for oil/enamel, i would suggest an acrylic base for the median of the color your using.
i normally do my figures in an acrylic base and do oil on top of that. with oil, you dont have to use more than a lightly moistened thinner brush. if you do it at the right time, you dont need thinner at all.
i normally do my figures in an acrylic base and do oil on top of that. with oil, you dont have to use more than a lightly moistened thinner brush. if you do it at the right time, you dont need thinner at all.