Hi Guys
Sorry if this has been asked before, I did search but got a bit overwhelmed by the results.
I am about to start painting my first bit of Russian WW2 armour, I normally do British/American and German. Regarding the green that Russian tanks where painted towards the end of the war, what would be the best match in the Humbrol or Revell enamels range.
Thanks for any help
Paul
Hosted by Jacques Duquette
Russian Green (Again) Sorry
Paul-H
Joined: April 02, 2010
KitMaker: 234 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 - 10:40 PM UTC
drumthumper
Joined: December 22, 2004
KitMaker: 392 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 - 10:49 PM UTC
Paul,
Although I can't offer names of specific matches in either the Humbrol or Revell range, I can say that 4B0 is likened to FS34102 - a medium green.
Kirchoff
Although I can't offer names of specific matches in either the Humbrol or Revell range, I can say that 4B0 is likened to FS34102 - a medium green.
Kirchoff
orpant
Joined: January 16, 2010
KitMaker: 139 posts
Armorama: 135 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 - 11:41 PM UTC
Try (first in a piece of plastic card, in order to check for your self), Humbrol's 117...
Paul-H
Joined: April 02, 2010
KitMaker: 234 posts
Armorama: 207 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 01:38 AM UTC
Thanks guys, most helpfull
Not only do Humbrol List FS34102 as 117 but I also have 117 in my paint collection.
Thanks
Paul
Not only do Humbrol List FS34102 as 117 but I also have 117 in my paint collection.
Thanks
Paul
Spiderfrommars
Joined: July 13, 2010
KitMaker: 3,845 posts
Armorama: 3,543 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 03:15 AM UTC
Hi Paul
Humbrol 117 is correct. I've heard that someone use also Humbrol 86.
117:
86:
http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/colorcharts/stuff_eng_colorcharts_fs.htm
http://www.ipmsnymburk.com/tamiya%20mixing/FSTamiya.pdf
Humbrol 117 is correct. I've heard that someone use also Humbrol 86.
117:
86:
http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/colorcharts/stuff_eng_colorcharts_fs.htm
http://www.ipmsnymburk.com/tamiya%20mixing/FSTamiya.pdf
Minsk94
Joined: June 16, 2008
KitMaker: 418 posts
Armorama: 408 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 05:34 AM UTC
IMHO: If you are really concerned with historical accuracy your best bet is to mix it yourself. You will have to experiment with it.
Humbrol 117 is not even close to 4BO. The model will look like a frog...
Humbrol 117 is not even close to 4BO. The model will look like a frog...
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 05:54 AM UTC
You will find hundreds of opinions for the correct color of 4BO Green. Mix it to what you think is correct. I use some paint I had mixed at a hardware store. Only cost me a few $$s.
Wierdy
Joined: January 26, 2010
KitMaker: 570 posts
Armorama: 553 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 06:41 AM UTC
Hi Paul 
Not sure if that would be of much help to you, cause it's all Russian, but here is a link to model paint manufacturer AKAH with how (according to their knowledge and research) the real 4BO (4БО) should look like:
http://www.kraskiakan.ru/index.php/satii
Vehicles shown in the bottom of that page are painted for 2011 Victory Day parade and the colours used are somewhat different from 4 BO which was not used for Soviet armour after 1947 at the latest. The same goes to most tanks/AFVs from Kubinka and installed on monuments as they are being continuously repainted over the years.
I personally use Humbrol 159 to which a very small amount of 226 can be added if you want it to be more greenish, but that's only one of the variants possible, so keep on searching.
Best regards, Paul
Not sure if that would be of much help to you, cause it's all Russian, but here is a link to model paint manufacturer AKAH with how (according to their knowledge and research) the real 4BO (4БО) should look like:http://www.kraskiakan.ru/index.php/satii
Vehicles shown in the bottom of that page are painted for 2011 Victory Day parade and the colours used are somewhat different from 4 BO which was not used for Soviet armour after 1947 at the latest. The same goes to most tanks/AFVs from Kubinka and installed on monuments as they are being continuously repainted over the years.
I personally use Humbrol 159 to which a very small amount of 226 can be added if you want it to be more greenish, but that's only one of the variants possible, so keep on searching.
Best regards, Paul
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 07:12 AM UTC
I have a solution. Pay the expense to call a Russian paint manufacturer and place an order for 4BO Green. Sure it's expensive, but no more guesswork. 
Minsk94
Joined: June 16, 2008
KitMaker: 418 posts
Armorama: 408 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 08:31 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I have a solution. Pay the expense to call a Russian paint manufacturer and place an order for 4BO Green.
And who can we call? Original (WWII period) 4BO was changed in 1947, and production was stopped completely in 1952.
PadrePete
Joined: May 18, 2010
KitMaker: 219 posts
Armorama: 213 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 08:40 AM UTC
Russian green is like German gray; you will always be 50% right... and 50% wrong ...
I used a yellow/gray mix to get the green for my BT-7. Like most camo colors it varied widely, and in Russia it varied from factory to factory too.
I used a yellow/gray mix to get the green for my BT-7. Like most camo colors it varied widely, and in Russia it varied from factory to factory too.
Minsk94
Joined: June 16, 2008
KitMaker: 418 posts
Armorama: 408 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 09:35 AM UTC
Quoted Text
... and in Russia it varied from factory to factory too.
I was always curious of how this legend got invented?
Spiderfrommars
Joined: July 13, 2010
KitMaker: 3,845 posts
Armorama: 3,543 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 09:58 AM UTC
Quoted Text
IMHO: If you are really concerned with historical accuracy your best bet is to mix it yourself. You will have to experiment with it.
Humbrol 117 is not even close to 4BO. The model will look like a frog...
Hi Alex
It seem that 4bo was closer to an olive drab rather than an olive green
What's your personal recipe? I don't use enamels to paint my models I use acrylics.
AKAH paints aside, what's the paint on sale closest to 4bo green?
cheers and thanks in advance
...PS
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI have a solution. Pay the expense to call a Russian paint manufacturer and place an order for 4BO Green.
And who can we call? Original (WWII period) 4BO was changed in 1947, and production was stopped completely in 1952.
It seemed an odd idea but....Are there in Russia tank restorers? What kind of paint do they use to replicate ww2 russian green. Maybe they use restorers or they have a recipe to replicate it...
Minsk94
Joined: June 16, 2008
KitMaker: 418 posts
Armorama: 408 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 10:50 AM UTC
Hi, Mauro!
The topic of correct 4BO is really interesting to me because... - yes, I have not mixed my own yet. I started to build several models of Russian armor but didn't finish any of them yet. I put them aside for one reason or another. But right now I got back to my SU-100, and upon finishing it I will be mixing my own color.
I am really picky about those things, sorry. I have unfinished composite Sherman, because I couldn't pick the color. Repainted it three times. Gave up for now.
I will not be able to give you a recipe for 4BO, because I don't measure paint that I mix. I just feel it, I guess. But in this case I might ask someone to spray AKAN paints on a strip of plastic for me and send it to me in an envelope.
I will probably mix it using Model Air 043 as the base. I think it is the closes one.
Are there tank restorers in Russia and former Soviet countries? Yes, there are. But I don't think the proper color is their main concern. They are happy if they will have money to restore the tank.
The topic of correct 4BO is really interesting to me because... - yes, I have not mixed my own yet. I started to build several models of Russian armor but didn't finish any of them yet. I put them aside for one reason or another. But right now I got back to my SU-100, and upon finishing it I will be mixing my own color.
I am really picky about those things, sorry. I have unfinished composite Sherman, because I couldn't pick the color. Repainted it three times. Gave up for now.
I will not be able to give you a recipe for 4BO, because I don't measure paint that I mix. I just feel it, I guess. But in this case I might ask someone to spray AKAN paints on a strip of plastic for me and send it to me in an envelope.
I will probably mix it using Model Air 043 as the base. I think it is the closes one.
Are there tank restorers in Russia and former Soviet countries? Yes, there are. But I don't think the proper color is their main concern. They are happy if they will have money to restore the tank.
Spiderfrommars
Joined: July 13, 2010
KitMaker: 3,845 posts
Armorama: 3,543 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 11:16 AM UTC
Thanks a lot for the reply Alex
Well, I have Model Air 43, I think I'll try some mixture using AKAN chip as a refereence. Maybe I should clear it a little with a drop of sand color
...Stunning and clean build your Su-100 !...I hope to see it finished soon (and many thanks for the blueprits which were in the tread
...)
cheers
Well, I have Model Air 43, I think I'll try some mixture using AKAN chip as a refereence. Maybe I should clear it a little with a drop of sand color
...Stunning and clean build your Su-100 !...I hope to see it finished soon (and many thanks for the blueprits which were in the tread
...)cheers
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 12:46 PM UTC
Tamiya Khaki Drab seems to be fairly close. I don't have any left or I would give you the number for it. AKAH sells the paint it displays, but the registration to get a quote does not work. I searched their site and found that they don't have any way to resolve that.
drumthumper
Joined: December 22, 2004
KitMaker: 392 posts
Armorama: 227 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 03:44 PM UTC
Hey, fellas
Don't forget to make sure whichever 4B0 paint chip you use to custom mix your own exact shade is color-adjusted for 1/35 scale. If it's not, then we're pretty much left to our own devices anyway .... unless someone can cite a scientifically researched formula to scale-down a 1:1 example.
I'm waiting .....
Kirchoff
Don't forget to make sure whichever 4B0 paint chip you use to custom mix your own exact shade is color-adjusted for 1/35 scale. If it's not, then we're pretty much left to our own devices anyway .... unless someone can cite a scientifically researched formula to scale-down a 1:1 example.
I'm waiting .....
Kirchoff
CMOT
Editor-in-Chief
Joined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 10,954 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 04:18 PM UTC
I will stick with the AK interactive 4BO Russian green colour modulation set, I like the result and I have yet to have anyone prove it is wrong.
drumthumper
Joined: December 22, 2004
KitMaker: 392 posts
Armorama: 227 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 04:51 PM UTC
Darren,
I agree. But, the debate will continue even though the issue remains a matter of personal choice. While I like the "chalky-greenish" tint my version of 4B0 possesses, others refuse to believe the actual Soviet Green was little more than an Olive Drab. And that's fine. To each their own. To me, the AKAN chip that Mauro posted in no way looks Olive Drab to me. I see a Medium, almost a Marine Green that looks darn close to FS34102! Olive Drab was much, much more Brown, to my recollection.
That all being said, I love a healthy and informative discussion. I do think it's a little ironic, though, that some modelers/researchers spend hours pouring over documents, texts and photos in an effort to determine a finite color (Dunkelgelb is a prime example), only to see most modelers miss the proverbial boat scale-wise, or completely alter the intended color during the weathering stages. I do applaud their efforts, however!
Kirchoff
I agree. But, the debate will continue even though the issue remains a matter of personal choice. While I like the "chalky-greenish" tint my version of 4B0 possesses, others refuse to believe the actual Soviet Green was little more than an Olive Drab. And that's fine. To each their own. To me, the AKAN chip that Mauro posted in no way looks Olive Drab to me. I see a Medium, almost a Marine Green that looks darn close to FS34102! Olive Drab was much, much more Brown, to my recollection.
That all being said, I love a healthy and informative discussion. I do think it's a little ironic, though, that some modelers/researchers spend hours pouring over documents, texts and photos in an effort to determine a finite color (Dunkelgelb is a prime example), only to see most modelers miss the proverbial boat scale-wise, or completely alter the intended color during the weathering stages.
I do applaud their efforts, however!Kirchoff
Spiderfrommars
Joined: July 13, 2010
KitMaker: 3,845 posts
Armorama: 3,543 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 05:57 PM UTC
Actually some of us have litttle arguments with mr AKAN...
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/175963&ord=&page=1
Hi Mike
That's really strange...I swear that on my pc screen it looks like an olive drab, closer to brown rather than a green
34012
34087
How do you see these charts?
Maybe I need to calibrate my monitor....or am I colorblind?
Joking aside I agree with you. It's also a matter of personal choice and the color appearance changes strongly on the real objects.
Anyway, speaking in general, I was thinking that russian green was a sort of dark olive green (that's the reason way I told to Paul that Hu 117 is correct) and I've seen lots of models on modeller magazines which was painted in this shade.
Recently I've started to have some doubts about, so maybe the next time I'll paint a russian tank starting with olive drab as color base
Regards
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/175963&ord=&page=1
Quoted Text
the AKAN chip that Mauro posted in no way looks Olive Drab to me. I see a Medium, almost a Marine Green that looks darn close to FS34102! Olive Drab was much, much more Brown, to my recollection.
Hi Mike
That's really strange...I swear that on my pc screen it looks like an olive drab, closer to brown rather than a green
34012
34087
How do you see these charts?
Maybe I need to calibrate my monitor....or am I colorblind?
Joking aside I agree with you. It's also a matter of personal choice and the color appearance changes strongly on the real objects.
Anyway, speaking in general, I was thinking that russian green was a sort of dark olive green (that's the reason way I told to Paul that Hu 117 is correct) and I've seen lots of models on modeller magazines which was painted in this shade.
Recently I've started to have some doubts about, so maybe the next time I'll paint a russian tank starting with olive drab as color base
Regards
drumthumper
Joined: December 22, 2004
KitMaker: 392 posts
Armorama: 227 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 11:20 PM UTC
It appears there is some debate regarding the accuracy of the AKAN color interpretations.
As for the chips you offered in your last post, indeed the 34102 appears a Medium Green, while the 34087 (a FS color most manufacturers have adopted as a "Standard" Olive Drab), does look much more brownish to me!
Of course, in my mind's eye, I see colors a certain way, while others could envision the same color another. If not for any reason other than artistic, I shy away from Olive Drab for Soviet equipment simply because with all the models I want to build I don't want to get bored painting and be left with dozens of same-colored T-34s and Shermans ...!
And, I am fairly certain you are NOT colorblind
Later, my friend
Mike
As for the chips you offered in your last post, indeed the 34102 appears a Medium Green, while the 34087 (a FS color most manufacturers have adopted as a "Standard" Olive Drab), does look much more brownish to me!
Of course, in my mind's eye, I see colors a certain way, while others could envision the same color another. If not for any reason other than artistic, I shy away from Olive Drab for Soviet equipment simply because with all the models I want to build I don't want to get bored painting and be left with dozens of same-colored T-34s and Shermans ...!
And, I am fairly certain you are NOT colorblind
Later, my friend
Mike
Belt_Fed
Joined: February 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,325 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 11:47 PM UTC
Mike Rinaldi used Lifecolor Dark Green on one of his tanks and he says its the perfect color (for him). food for thought.
SEDimmick
Joined: March 15, 2002
KitMaker: 1,745 posts
Armorama: 1,483 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 26, 2011 - 01:21 AM UTC
Couple of Comments:
I've used/seen the following paint used for 4BO Green
Tamiya NATO Green
AKAN 4BO Green
Lifecolor Dark Green
My observations:
Akan 4BO green is very close to Tamiya NATO green, as is LifeColor Green. The differences are that the AKAN color is a hair lighter and seems to be a bit more chalky looking green. The Lifecolor Dark Green is bit darker then the NATO green, which in my eye makes it perfect for fresh CARC NATO Green.
Anyways...always keep this in mind, once you start weathering "color" matching is all bets off. I have several kits painted with Tamiya Olive Drab...and after the weathering process, none of them are exactly the same color.
So I'd be less concerned with matching up the correct color and instead getting a color that is close and working from there.
I've used/seen the following paint used for 4BO Green
Tamiya NATO Green
AKAN 4BO Green
Lifecolor Dark Green
My observations:
Akan 4BO green is very close to Tamiya NATO green, as is LifeColor Green. The differences are that the AKAN color is a hair lighter and seems to be a bit more chalky looking green. The Lifecolor Dark Green is bit darker then the NATO green, which in my eye makes it perfect for fresh CARC NATO Green.
Anyways...always keep this in mind, once you start weathering "color" matching is all bets off. I have several kits painted with Tamiya Olive Drab...and after the weathering process, none of them are exactly the same color.
So I'd be less concerned with matching up the correct color and instead getting a color that is close and working from there.
Paul-H
Joined: April 02, 2010
KitMaker: 234 posts
Armorama: 207 posts
Posted: Friday, May 27, 2011 - 06:47 PM UTC
Thanks for all the help guys
I ended up using Humbrol 86, which to my eyes looked close enough to be quite convincing once weathered and different enough to be different to the Olive Drabs I use on US and UK armour.
Thanks
Paul
I ended up using Humbrol 86, which to my eyes looked close enough to be quite convincing once weathered and different enough to be different to the Olive Drabs I use on US and UK armour.
Thanks
Paul
Spiderfrommars
Joined: July 13, 2010
KitMaker: 3,845 posts
Armorama: 3,543 posts
Posted: Friday, May 27, 2011 - 07:29 PM UTC
Quoted Text
. If not for any reason other than artistic, I shy away from Olive Drab for Soviet equipment simply because with all the models I want to build I don't want to get bored painting and be left with dozens of same-colored T-34s and Shermans ...!
And, I am fairly certain you are NOT colorblind
Later, my friend
Mike
I hope so!
I totally agree with you. It would be incredibly boring having several tanks painted just with OD....
Anyway, one of the reasons why I've decided to model tanks instead to model aircrafts, is that I was rather bored to go mad every time with Federal standard correctness..I wouldn't start again with armour vehicles...
Quoted Text
I ended up using Humbrol 86
Ok Paul, now I hope to see your soviet tanks soon
cheers
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