Quick question for you guys. I was wondering if there would be any problems applying waterslide decals to a gloss paint without coating it with future beforehand?
I have micro sol and micro set, although I am applying the decals to flat panels so I shouldn't really need them.
AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Matthew Toms
Q Applying decals to gloss basecoat
vonHengest
Texas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2010
KitMaker: 5,854 posts
Armorama: 4,817 posts
Joined: June 29, 2010
KitMaker: 5,854 posts
Armorama: 4,817 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 04:54 PM UTC
drumthumper
Kansas, United States
Joined: December 22, 2004
KitMaker: 392 posts
Armorama: 227 posts
Joined: December 22, 2004
KitMaker: 392 posts
Armorama: 227 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 05:12 PM UTC
Jeremy,
Not at all, to answer your question. The gloss coat serves the same purpose as the Future, and vice versa. All you are looking for with either is a smooth surface for the decals to snuggle against. A matt or flat finish is very irregular, which allows the decal to rest on the high-points (nearly microscopic, though they might be), and creates the potential for "silvering", or trapped air under the marking.
So you should be ready to apply the markings without the need of any other surface treatment. Oh, and you can still use the decal setting solutions to help soften and set the decals.
Kirchoff
Not at all, to answer your question. The gloss coat serves the same purpose as the Future, and vice versa. All you are looking for with either is a smooth surface for the decals to snuggle against. A matt or flat finish is very irregular, which allows the decal to rest on the high-points (nearly microscopic, though they might be), and creates the potential for "silvering", or trapped air under the marking.
So you should be ready to apply the markings without the need of any other surface treatment. Oh, and you can still use the decal setting solutions to help soften and set the decals.
Kirchoff
vonHengest
Texas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2010
KitMaker: 5,854 posts
Armorama: 4,817 posts
Joined: June 29, 2010
KitMaker: 5,854 posts
Armorama: 4,817 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 05:17 PM UTC
Excellent Mike, that's what I was thinking but wanted to make sure before I tried it out. I'll use the solution as well simply because I like my decals to melt a little, seems it helps them regardless of surface features. Thanks
Spiderfrommars
Milano, Italy
Joined: July 13, 2010
KitMaker: 3,845 posts
Armorama: 3,543 posts
Joined: July 13, 2010
KitMaker: 3,845 posts
Armorama: 3,543 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 06:08 PM UTC
For italian modellers It would be a disaster if slide decals had problems without a Future coat...
Future Is not for sale in Italy....neither is Klir
Future Is not for sale in Italy....neither is Klir
vonHengest
Texas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2010
KitMaker: 5,854 posts
Armorama: 4,817 posts
Joined: June 29, 2010
KitMaker: 5,854 posts
Armorama: 4,817 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 06:13 PM UTC
Good point Mauro, I remember discussing lack of many common paints in Italy with you. Gives some perspective as to why so many armor colors are available in gloss
Spiderfrommars
Milano, Italy
Joined: July 13, 2010
KitMaker: 3,845 posts
Armorama: 3,543 posts
Joined: July 13, 2010
KitMaker: 3,845 posts
Armorama: 3,543 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 08:25 PM UTC
Well, I don't know Jeremy
It seems to me that almos all the paints are matt especially the acrylic ones
Anyway, we subsitute the future wax with gunze or tamiya clear paints
If I went to USA I'd buy at least 10 litres of them... But I wouldn't bring them on the plane ....
cheers
It seems to me that almos all the paints are matt especially the acrylic ones
Anyway, we subsitute the future wax with gunze or tamiya clear paints
If I went to USA I'd buy at least 10 litres of them... But I wouldn't bring them on the plane ....
cheers
Joel_W
Associate Editor
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 28, 2011 - 01:19 PM UTC
While new to the armor scene, I've been a military aircraft modeler on and off for many years, and decal procedures are exactly the same for both modeling venues.
The smoother the surface, the better the decaling comes out by reducing or hopefully eliminating silvering. My Favorite method for large compound curved models is to apply one lite, then one or two heavy coats of Testors Model Master Glosscoat. It's lacquer based, dies quickly, but over night assures you a rock solid/dry surface. For smaller flat surfaces Future (Pledge here in the USA) applied with a medium wide brush produces a very glossy surface to decal on. It dries within a 1/2 hour, but I generally give it a few hours to really completely dry. Air brushing any Future containing product only yields a matt finish, no matter how many coats one applies.
Gloss paints not applied correctly will produce a semi glossy finish commonly called orange peel. It's not the best surface to decal on, and usually the end result is a lot of silvering.
I've been painting with Acrylics since I returned to the hobby a year ago. My preference is to go back to good old Model Master enamels. I usually let each color dry for a min of 24 hours so drying time isn't an issue for me.
The smoother the surface, the better the decaling comes out by reducing or hopefully eliminating silvering. My Favorite method for large compound curved models is to apply one lite, then one or two heavy coats of Testors Model Master Glosscoat. It's lacquer based, dies quickly, but over night assures you a rock solid/dry surface. For smaller flat surfaces Future (Pledge here in the USA) applied with a medium wide brush produces a very glossy surface to decal on. It dries within a 1/2 hour, but I generally give it a few hours to really completely dry. Air brushing any Future containing product only yields a matt finish, no matter how many coats one applies.
Gloss paints not applied correctly will produce a semi glossy finish commonly called orange peel. It's not the best surface to decal on, and usually the end result is a lot of silvering.
I've been painting with Acrylics since I returned to the hobby a year ago. My preference is to go back to good old Model Master enamels. I usually let each color dry for a min of 24 hours so drying time isn't an issue for me.
vonHengest
Texas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2010
KitMaker: 5,854 posts
Armorama: 4,817 posts
Joined: June 29, 2010
KitMaker: 5,854 posts
Armorama: 4,817 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 28, 2011 - 01:40 PM UTC
Thanks for your input Joel!
I like the MM gloss and have thought about using on my next project.
I'm pretty familiar with orange peel and other unwanted effects. The paint I used was Tamiya TS-3 which is a gloss color. I've never really used waterslide decals before and wanted to make sure that they wouldn't silver when applied over a gloss acrylic. The decals worked out great on the surface and a little bit of decal setting solution helped make them just about perfect.
Cheers
I like the MM gloss and have thought about using on my next project.
I'm pretty familiar with orange peel and other unwanted effects. The paint I used was Tamiya TS-3 which is a gloss color. I've never really used waterslide decals before and wanted to make sure that they wouldn't silver when applied over a gloss acrylic. The decals worked out great on the surface and a little bit of decal setting solution helped make them just about perfect.
Cheers
Joel_W
Associate Editor
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 28, 2011 - 02:07 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks for your input Joel!
I like the MM gloss and have thought about using on my next project.
I'm pretty familiar with orange peel and other unwanted effects. The paint I used was Tamiya TS-3 which is a gloss color. I've never really used waterslide decals before and wanted to make sure that they wouldn't silver when applied over a gloss acrylic. The decals worked out great on the surface and a little bit of decal setting solution helped make them just about perfect.
Cheers
Glad to hear that your decals came out great.
I use the Microscale system with a little tweaking, and have never looked back.
vonHengest
Texas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2010
KitMaker: 5,854 posts
Armorama: 4,817 posts
Joined: June 29, 2010
KitMaker: 5,854 posts
Armorama: 4,817 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 28, 2011 - 08:21 PM UTC
This is the first time I've had a chance to use the Microscale products and I have to agree with you, it's really top notch stuff!