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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
AK Interactive weathering products
GALILEO1
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Posted: Thursday, June 23, 2011 - 04:15 PM UTC
Hey all,

I've been thinking about picking up some AK interactive weathering products as they look like they may be worth it. The thing is though, I'm a bit confused as to when, within the finishing process, I need to apply them. In other words, at what point during the finishing process do I make use of some of those products (streaking effects, etc). Do I first shoot a gloss coat, then do a wash, etc, before using them?

I know this should be pretty obvious but I can't seem to make the mental leap that would allow me to properly sequence the overall finishing process when using these products.

Thanks in advance for the feedback!

Rob
Paul-H
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Posted: Thursday, June 23, 2011 - 06:46 PM UTC
Hi

I apply mine near the end of the weathering process, after all pigments have been applied, but some can be used as a wash so fould be used before you add pigments. Confusing I know.

Or you could just use Enamel Paint thinned with Mineral Spirt and get something very close to AK products at a fraction of the cost and practice with that first.

Paul
PvtMutt
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Posted: Friday, June 24, 2011 - 05:47 AM UTC
If you can't find what you need to know here:
http://akinteractive.foroactivo.com/
Just ask

Tony the Mutt
SSGToms
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Posted: Friday, June 24, 2011 - 06:42 AM UTC
I apply my AK products after I'm done with all the oils, on a flat coated surface. The dragging and streaking effects work much better on a flat coat.
Karl187
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Posted: Friday, June 24, 2011 - 08:57 AM UTC
Rob- I think Matthew posted the optimum time to use them. However, some of the products (streaking grime for example) I have applied at various stages (always after letting any oil stages dry thoroughly) as some weathering products can lessen the impact of products applied beforehand. For instance I applied some streaks that got slightly muted by pigments, so to make the grime appear fresh I applied some more afterward.

Hope this helps.

-Karl187-
SSGToms
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Posted: Friday, June 24, 2011 - 01:36 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Rob- I think Matthew posted the optimum time to use them. However, some of the products (streaking grime for example) I have applied at various stages (always after letting any oil stages dry thoroughly) as some weathering products can lessen the impact of products applied beforehand. For instance I applied some streaks that got slightly muted by pigments, so to make the grime appear fresh I applied some more afterward.

Hope this helps.

-Karl187-


That's one of the things that I really like about the AK products. You can layer them with other products and mediums and re-apply them for old and fresher stains and streaks. It's easy to get a lot of depth and reality to the finish. I am really loving the fuel stains and oil stains, they look so great I really have to restrain myself from overdoing them!
Plasticbattle
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Posted: Saturday, June 25, 2011 - 03:35 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Do I first shoot a gloss coat, then do a wash, etc, before using them?
I know this should be pretty obvious but I can't seem to make the mental leap that would allow me to properly sequence the overall finishing process when using these products.


Hi Rob. I would recommend getting the enamel weathering DVD from them first or at the same time. DoesnŽt matter how long youŽve been modelling, youŽll find good tips and explanations on how to do each step. As well as helping you along with the weathering, it provides a good bit of inspiration as well.
SSGToms
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Posted: Saturday, June 25, 2011 - 12:24 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


That's one of the things that I really like about the AK products. You can layer them with other products and mediums and re-apply them for old and fresher stains and streaks. It's easy to get a lot of depth and reality to the finish. I am really loving the fuel stains and oil stains, they look so great I really have to restrain myself from overdoing them!




and how long did you have to wait for each layer to cure?


That depends a lot on temperature and humidity, but I've added another layer 2 hours later. Usually I just leave it overnight, 8 hours.
imatanker
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Posted: Sunday, June 26, 2011 - 12:57 AM UTC

Quoted Text

and the colors didn't mix?
I only tried their filters once, and waited overnight, there was still mixing when another color was applied after the wait. IMO 8 hour isn't sufficient for enamel to form a in-re-hydrable (making up word, but you get what I meant) layer regardless of the solvent vehicle. In automotive painting, when real enamel was still used, they baked the paint to accelerate its cure and that was done over longer periods of time than 8 hours. Although, they also painted much thicker coats, more layers of applications...

The reason I asked. If the colors mixed, then the result wasn't "filters" (plural)...............Brian,The term you are looking for is "reversible".Back in the day(35 years ago)most of your auto finishes where either laquer or enamel and where reversible,meaning that you could take a solvent ,laq. thinner or enamel reducer,and with a little work you could wipe the paint right off the car!With the advent of acrylic enamels came the 2 part piant systems,i.e.paint plus a catalyst.The addition of the catalyst to the paint caused a chemical reaction that cross linked the paint and made it "non-reversable",in other words the paint did not dry (evaporation) it cured(chemical reaction)and was not effected by solvents .Now a days almost all cars and trucks are finished at the factory with base coat clear coat system.The clear is a urathane and requires a catylist.The vecs. are baked as that speeds the cure.So anyway,most of the paints we use on models are reversable and will soften or dissolve with the right solvent.I would caution any one not to use a 2 part paint system as the chemicals used are HIGHLY TOXIC!Pick your solvent carefully. Thats my lecture for today boys and girls,there will be a quiz on Tuesday.LOL







Karl187
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Posted: Sunday, June 26, 2011 - 08:55 AM UTC

Quoted Text

and the colors didn't mix?
I only tried their filters once, and waited overnight, there was still mixing when another color was applied after the wait. IMO 8 hour isn't sufficient for enamel to form a in-re-hydrable (making up word, but you get what I meant) layer regardless of the solvent vehicle. In automotive painting, when real enamel was still used, they baked the paint to accelerate its cure and that was done over longer periods of time than 8 hours. Although, they also painted much thicker coats, more layers of applications...

The reason I asked. If the colors mixed, then the result wasn't "filters" (plural).




Whenever I use filters I seal it with varnish/future etc to stop it mixing with later stage weathering.
imatanker
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Posted: Sunday, June 26, 2011 - 10:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I was under the impression that urethane is the only one that requires a chemical process to cure. Enamel and acrylic enamel can use hardeners, but they don't necessarily accelerate the curing, and the curing is essentially drying of the oil or water in the mixture. In the case of enamel, it never really dries (like an oil paint).
Anyway, I think curing and drying meant the same thing to enamel and acrylic.

In acrylic enamel, the acrylic molecules form a hard bond when the vehicle dries. This bond protects the enamel content within. The paint has a complicated base but could be understood as oil based, and I've heard that acrylic enamel required 1-3 days between each thin coat in automotive painting.

Acrylic paints (in modeling) are pigments suspended in pure acrylic materials. Because there's no need for oil based filler or binder, water was chosen for it evaporate faster. It's expansive (like twice the price of acrylic enamel), and the finish, although durable, isn't as durable and scratch resistant as urethane, so auto industries use urethane.

Baking was only necessary for oil based paints, enamel and acrylic enamel. Acrylic paints dry fast, and urethane paints don't benefit from the heat as it's hardened from chemical reaction.

The base coat - top coat system you mentioned was only to obtain the gloss finish. In fact, since the clear coat could act as a filter and alter the perceived color, one stage application is arguably better.

......Brian,I will not argue with you I was speaking in automotive terms.I have been in the auto refinishing buisness for almost 35 years now,and made a good living spraying all the paints we have spoken about.An acrylic enamel paint job was applied in one shot at the factory,in the aftermarket 10 to 15 minutes between coats with 3 to 4 coats was average.All vecs. today are baked at the factory.it does speed the cure.In the field urethane clear coat is baked in the spray booth for about 30 to 40 minutes at around 140 degrees depending on the maker.If it was not ot would take days to cure.Best Reguards ,Jeff
















Karl187
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Posted: Sunday, June 26, 2011 - 10:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Whenever I use filters I seal it with varnish/future etc to stop it mixing with later stage weathering.



this is why I prefer acrylic paints. a lot of clear coats will knock down small details.



Yeap multiple clear cloats definetly mutes the color but I only seal it once. I use a filter (oil or enamel) right after I'm done painting (although I don't always use a filter) and then seal it and the paint. I find this brings things together nicely, especially if the paint is a camo scheme.
collin26
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Posted: Sunday, June 26, 2011 - 04:35 PM UTC
Rob,
There are different effects offered from AK Interactive. Each different effect has a different dilusion rate. The filters, washes, streaking effects, & different dust, mud & earth effects are each different and can be used at different stages of your weathering.
Pesonaly, I usually apply a filter after my base colors, markings, & an acrylic satin varnish are complete. This point would be a good time to use oils to alter your base colors as well. Your oils will take a while to dry. Next would be to add different washes to accent panel lines & details. This would be followed by a light round of streaking effects & chipping with acrylics. Next the weathering would begin in ernest, starting with the streaking affects and on through the different dust, & mud effects. Through out the weathering, I will alternate different effects to layer the effects in an effort to keep them off balance & random. In this way I can correct mistakes & avoid the weathering looking to uniform.
Brian was on to something when he mentioned the "baking" in automotive paint. In a somewhat similar way, you can use a hair-blow dryer to excelerate the drying time between each effect. Like any other paint, if you rush from one step to the next you will end up with a mess. I personaly have not had any issues with different effect altering the previous stages. However, I do not know of a reason why you could not add a satin or matt every so often to seal the previous weathering. The only negative effect could be that if you add to many of these barriers & add them to thick, you could loose some of the surface details of your model.
GALILEO1
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Posted: Monday, June 27, 2011 - 03:07 PM UTC
This is all great info, guys!! I can see now that I'll have to do some serious experimentation with AK-products to get the results I'm after. Some of the responses here really put some of my thoughts/ideas into perspective so I'll definitely give these suggestions a try.

Thanks again for the input!!!

Rob
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