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REVIEW
DML 7.5 cm Pak 40 with gun crew
c5flies
Joined: October 21, 2007
KitMaker: 3,684 posts
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Posted: Friday, June 24, 2011 - 04:29 PM UTC
Darren Baker takes a look at the 7.5 cm Pak 40 with Heer gun crew from Dragon. This product was rightfully criticised when first released but Dragon has taken another crack at it.
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If you have comments or questions please post them here.
Thanks!
CMOT
Editor-in-Chief
Joined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 10,954 posts
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Posted: Friday, June 24, 2011 - 04:56 PM UTC
Thank you for getting this done so quickly James.
Some may question my rating on this model and I believe I should explain that my rating if based on what I hold in my hand would have been higher, but with the original release having some very big faults scale wise, I don't know how many are still out there for sale and I wanted to really get that word of caution across.
Some may question my rating on this model and I believe I should explain that my rating if based on what I hold in my hand would have been higher, but with the original release having some very big faults scale wise, I don't know how many are still out there for sale and I wanted to really get that word of caution across.
Plasticbattle
#003
Joined: May 14, 2002
KitMaker: 9,763 posts
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Posted: Friday, June 24, 2011 - 11:36 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Some may question my rating on this model and I believe I should explain that my rating if based on what I hold in my hand would have been higher, but with the original release having some very big faults scale wise, I don't know how many are still out there for sale and I wanted to really get that word of caution across.
Hi Darren. A good review, but I somehow feel its wrong/unfair to rate a model lower because the previous release had faults. The review should be based only with what "you have in your hands". It should be enough to mention that the previous release has problems. In fact there are several kits by Dragon with problems in the earlier release, which have also been updated. IMO a company should be praised for taking this step ... although they could do more to inform and/or make it clearer from the box identification.
It might have been a good idea to describe the basic changes with this update kit, so modelers know by looking at the kit, if they have the updated set or not. Does anybody know or have a list of what changes have been made?
One thing that stands out for me is the price of this set. DML figure sets alone are fast approaching this price in Sweden, with Gen II sets already hitting or going over £20. At £17.50, this is a steal!!!!!
alanmac
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 3,033 posts
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Posted: Saturday, June 25, 2011 - 12:51 AM UTC
Hi
Thanks for the review. It is indeed worth praising Dragon for going back and correcting the mistakes in the kit, but again as Frank mentioned this is totally let down by the fact there is no way of knowing upon purchase if you are getting the "corrected " kit if you buy this boxing, which I did !! and found them incorrect.
The only real way to be certain of getting the corrected version is to buy either
6250 kit - 7.5cm PaK 40 Late Type w/Fallschirmjäger Anzio 1944
or the "updated"
6433 Premium kit - 7.5cm PaK 40 with Heer Gun crew.
Or the AFV Club version
But be aware the 6433 Premium version does not include the metal barrel as per the original release, which is kind of weird for a premium labelled release.
I brought the infamous Dragon Panzer IV E kit number 6264 on impulse off of ebay only to read about all its faults afterwards, but struck lucky this time in that when it arrived mine contained all the corrected parts. But again nothing on the box tells you it the "corrected" kit, which is a shame, as Dragon did a cracking job on correction.
Alan
Thanks for the review. It is indeed worth praising Dragon for going back and correcting the mistakes in the kit, but again as Frank mentioned this is totally let down by the fact there is no way of knowing upon purchase if you are getting the "corrected " kit if you buy this boxing, which I did !! and found them incorrect.
The only real way to be certain of getting the corrected version is to buy either
6250 kit - 7.5cm PaK 40 Late Type w/Fallschirmjäger Anzio 1944
or the "updated"
6433 Premium kit - 7.5cm PaK 40 with Heer Gun crew.
Or the AFV Club version
But be aware the 6433 Premium version does not include the metal barrel as per the original release, which is kind of weird for a premium labelled release.
I brought the infamous Dragon Panzer IV E kit number 6264 on impulse off of ebay only to read about all its faults afterwards, but struck lucky this time in that when it arrived mine contained all the corrected parts. But again nothing on the box tells you it the "corrected" kit, which is a shame, as Dragon did a cracking job on correction.
Alan
CMOT
Editor-in-ChiefJoined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 10,954 posts
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Posted: Saturday, June 25, 2011 - 01:28 AM UTC
Frank I wanted to give the model a good percentage score while erring on caution.
One of the most respected reviewers on another site points out accuracy issues with the trail legs and the slide portion of the gun cradle. I have also seen a review where the overall length of the gun barrel and breach is said to be wrong. I checked these parts as best I could and only find one possible problem with the trail legs where they seem to be less than 1mm too long.
What I didn't want to do was give the model 90+ percent and then when someone gets one of the original releases I come in for abuse as I said this that or the other.
Thank you both for taking the time to add your comments it is appreciated.
One of the most respected reviewers on another site points out accuracy issues with the trail legs and the slide portion of the gun cradle. I have also seen a review where the overall length of the gun barrel and breach is said to be wrong. I checked these parts as best I could and only find one possible problem with the trail legs where they seem to be less than 1mm too long.
What I didn't want to do was give the model 90+ percent and then when someone gets one of the original releases I come in for abuse as I said this that or the other.
Thank you both for taking the time to add your comments it is appreciated.
alanmac
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 3,033 posts
Armorama: 2,953 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 25, 2011 - 02:52 AM UTC
Hi Darren
As a footnote to my previous post I'd like to point out that the Premium edition kit whilst not including the turned barrel as I mentioned, it does however contain a brass gun shield not included in the original release. So its a case of buying a turned barrel if the modeller finds the kit part inappropriate.
The crew are as you can see from the Dragon poster depicted differently from your original release, in uniforms without Greatcoats.
The ones you have in the first issue are in fact a minor adaptation of their infantry set 6190 if anybody wanted to retain those to depict a colder scene.
Hope the information is of some use for fellow modellers in choosing which one to buy.
Alan
As a footnote to my previous post I'd like to point out that the Premium edition kit whilst not including the turned barrel as I mentioned, it does however contain a brass gun shield not included in the original release. So its a case of buying a turned barrel if the modeller finds the kit part inappropriate.
The crew are as you can see from the Dragon poster depicted differently from your original release, in uniforms without Greatcoats.
The ones you have in the first issue are in fact a minor adaptation of their infantry set 6190 if anybody wanted to retain those to depict a colder scene.
Hope the information is of some use for fellow modellers in choosing which one to buy.
Alan
CMOT
Editor-in-ChiefJoined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 10,954 posts
Armorama: 8,571 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 25, 2011 - 04:22 AM UTC
Thank you Alan
I do question if the addition of a brass gun shield, an extra PE fret, and a change of crew from a four man cold weather to a five man (in theory any weather) plus the loss of the turned barrel makes the Premium edition worth an extra £10. Your thoughts?
In addition kit DN6250 7.5cm Pak40 with Fallschirmjager Crew is the exact same gun but with none of the possible issues suffered in the initial DN6249 and is available for £14.99. According to the review I have seen it also contains the added extras that are included in DN6249.
If I am honest DN6250 is possibly the best kit of the gun as you are guaranteed that the model will be accurate and used in conjunction with DML German Field Howitzer Gun Crew - Premium Edition reviewed here, it will give you a host of crew positions for a two or three gun diorama.
I do question if the addition of a brass gun shield, an extra PE fret, and a change of crew from a four man cold weather to a five man (in theory any weather) plus the loss of the turned barrel makes the Premium edition worth an extra £10. Your thoughts?
In addition kit DN6250 7.5cm Pak40 with Fallschirmjager Crew is the exact same gun but with none of the possible issues suffered in the initial DN6249 and is available for £14.99. According to the review I have seen it also contains the added extras that are included in DN6249.
If I am honest DN6250 is possibly the best kit of the gun as you are guaranteed that the model will be accurate and used in conjunction with DML German Field Howitzer Gun Crew - Premium Edition reviewed here, it will give you a host of crew positions for a two or three gun diorama.
alanmac
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 3,033 posts
Armorama: 2,953 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 25, 2011 - 12:56 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Thank you Alan
I do question if the addition of a brass gun shield, an extra PE fret, and a change of crew from a four man cold weather to a five man (in theory any weather) plus the loss of the turned barrel makes the Premium edition worth an extra £10. Your thoughts?
In addition kit DN6250 7.5cm Pak40 with Fallschirmjager Crew is the exact same gun but with none of the possible issues suffered in the initial DN6249 and is available for £14.99. According to the review I have seen it also contains the added extras that are included in DN6249.
If I am honest DN6250 is possibly the best kit of the gun as you are guaranteed that the model will be accurate and used in conjunction with DML German Field Howitzer Gun Crew - Premium Edition reviewed here, it will give you a host of crew positions for a two or three gun diorama.
Hi Darren
I agree with you 100% as regards the boxing and selling of 6433 as a Premium kit. It doesn't appear to have the usual value for money that most of Dragon's Premium kits have, and I purchased it........but I must add at a greatly reduced price on ebay.
I also have purchased the figure set you mentioned, German Field Howitzer Gun Crew - Premium Edition . In fact it was your review of that set, pointing out the additional parts that spurred me on to buy it. That and the fact it was on offer at my local model show for £10.
I think it was also on offer recently at Modelzone but if that's still the case I don't know. I believe the figures used for the 6433 kit come from part of that howitzer set as well.
It's a shame Dragon didn't pop a "new tooling" logo on the corrected kits box for the kit you reviewed, like they have done on others then I'd say buy that one without hesitation.
As it is I happy to have purchased 6433 at a good price and only the metal barrel to buy if the need takes me.
Cheers.
Alan
CMOT
Editor-in-ChiefJoined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 10,954 posts
Armorama: 8,571 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 25, 2011 - 05:58 PM UTC
I just ran a price check on the German Field Howitzer Gun Crew - Premium Edition and everywhere I checked in the UK that I purchase from was in the £9 to £10 range still.
bill_c
Campaigns AdministratorJoined: January 09, 2008
KitMaker: 10,553 posts
Armorama: 8,109 posts
Posted: Monday, June 27, 2011 - 02:38 AM UTC
My take on the turned barrel controversy is that the barrel is in some ways the easier problem to solve: the muzzle brake is a thornier issue. Not only do plastic MBs lack the detailing of brass ones, they are vulnerable to making mistakes (too much glue, smearing, etc.). I never use a styrene brake unless I'm showing the piece in travel mode with its barrel covered.
Even with the Premium Kit, I've seen it at very reasonable prices, as it's no longer a "hot commodity." Were I to buy another PaK 40, I would go that route and get a brass/aluminum muzzle brake/turned barrel combo. They're pretty cheap from JB Model.eu or this one, for example (8 Euros, $10.50). With the PE brass splinter shield in the kit, that makes for a reasonable combo IMO.
Even with the Premium Kit, I've seen it at very reasonable prices, as it's no longer a "hot commodity." Were I to buy another PaK 40, I would go that route and get a brass/aluminum muzzle brake/turned barrel combo. They're pretty cheap from JB Model.eu or this one, for example (8 Euros, $10.50). With the PE brass splinter shield in the kit, that makes for a reasonable combo IMO.
CMOT
Editor-in-ChiefJoined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 10,954 posts
Armorama: 8,571 posts
Posted: Monday, June 27, 2011 - 05:05 AM UTC
The turned barrel looks ok as regards cut marks where it has been turned, the plastic barrel is two pieces on the thicker end of the barrel and then becomes one piece at the thinnest end. I agree with Bill regarding the muzzle brakes as I have not used one multi part plastic muzzle brake yet that was what I would call a good fit and filling and sanding of this part is a pain. I am sure you are correct about the gun shield being overly thick but the tapered edge on the moulding makes this look the part. I am starting a build review of the kit and the only issue I have encountered thus far is that a lot of the parts do not have a positive location on the model which will allow for errors to creep in.
Thank you for the feed back.
Thank you for the feed back.
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