I have recently gotten interested in Allied softskins of World War II (I'm building the old Tamiya Quad and have started reading on the LRDG). Every time that I try to do some reading on the subject of softskins I'm stymied by numerous words that mystify me: "CMP," "30 CWT," "Marmon Herrington," "#12 cab," etc... It's like I'm reading a foreign language. So, I am wondering if anyone could recommend a good place to start with an overview of Allied softskins. Is there something like a softskin analogue to Chamberlain's "British and American Tanks of World War II?" I would really be grateful if someone can point me to a good entry point (and later, then, I can learn more of the minutia of any particular vehicles that tickle my fancy). Thanks for any help.


Dave

Can't recomment a book, but I can give you a few words to get you going:

CMP referers to Canadian Military Pattern. This is applied to materiel, especially trucks manufactured in Canada. Sometimes these are designed in Canada, sometimes they are built under license from foreign companies.

15cwt, 30cwt etc; cwt is an older measurement of weight and means hundredweight. it its just a weight measurement for the truck

3ton etc - a different measurement for the weight of the truck

Marmon Herrington, Ford, Chevrolet, Guy, Austin, GMC, Willys, Bedford; all just manufacturers, mostly pre-existing manufacturers of commercial vehicles before the war

No12 cab and so on: Some trucks had a variety of cabs fitted for different periods and theaters. This refers to which cab that particular truck is fitted with

GS body and so on refers to the body type. GS is general service, a basic flatbed with hinged sides and tailgate suitable for a troop carrier or general cargo. Other types refer to specialised uses such as tankers and cranes


Hope some of those help

Chris

Very informative, Chris.
Dave, thanks for posting that question!
-Sean H.

A big help! Thank you.

To help me understand a bit better, maybe I can ask one more question... Do I have it right that different manufactures would have produced (more or less) the same vehicle, with only slight differences? For example, I believe that I've read the Tamiya Quad is a Ford FAT (Field Artillery Tractor) with #12 cab (don't know anything about what to call the chasses to which, presumably, there may have been other cabs attached). Is it correct that Chevy and Morris also produced this vehicle, with only slight differences (that a novice like me may not be able to easily spot)? Presumably this held for other softskins as well; i.e., that there are Ford and Chevy and Morris and Marmon Herrington versions, some of which may have been produced in Canada (designated CMP) and some in the US(?). These are murky areas, indeed!


Dave

Dave

CMP vehicles were developed and built in Canada to specifications laid down by the British War Office. They were built by Ford and Chevrolet and, as you suggest, the vehicles were extremely similar in appearance; in fact parts were interchangeable, even if Ford trucks had Ford V8 engines and the Chevs had (I think) 6 cylinder engines. So some parts were different, but you need to be quite good at recognition to tell them apart. CMP trucks were all RHD (Right Hand Drive).

The CMP trucks were built with several different cabs. The first was the No 11 which was cramped for the crew and had poor access to the engine. The No 12 cab came next; it had a bonnet (hood) that opened to give better access to the works. The final version was the No 13 cab; the one with the reverse slope windscreen with improved legrrom as well. There was also a No 43 cab which was essentially a No 13 with room for four seats abreast.

The Canadians also built other trucks which also got used by the Brits which were basically militarised versions of civilian trucks and these were often LHD

The CMP trucks being built to Brit specifications, there were also British trucks built to the same specifications which served the same purposes, but these were not similar in appearance. Just as you can tell a Mercedes truck from a Bedford, so were all these other ones different in appearance.

Incidentally, if it helps, there are 20 cwt in 1 ton; a cwt is 112 pounds (lbs) and a ton is 2240 lbs. One (imperial) ton is a bit less than 1 (metric) tonne.

HTH

Chris

Most definitely! I still am trying to sort it all out and wish that I had a print source showing the range of softskins, but you guys are really helping me along. Thank you for clarifying a few more bits of the picture.


Dave

There is one easy way you can normally tell ford and Chevrolet CMPs apart in pictures, provided you have a picture of the front: Chevrolets have the little 'bow tie' makers mark plate on the grille

Hi Dave

If you're into Allied softskins, these websites may interest you :

http://www.o5m6.de/ForeignTrucks.html#SoftBrit

http://www.oldcmp.net/indexes.html

http://www.wheelsofvictory.com/index2.html

HTH

Frenchy

Hi Dave,

I have a keen interest in Brish softskins too. There isn't a definative publication that I know of and sometimes just to confuse things nameoculture varies slightly.

Some useful books that might help.

British Military Transport by David E.Jane published bu Ryton Publications ISBN 1 898135 09 9

Army Transport 1939 - 1945 edited by David Fletcher and opublished bt HMSO Pulications ISBN 011 290506 4 (very comprehensive and technical data based)

William Gregg has two good publications related to Canadian used vehicles:

Europe WW2 and Blue Print for Victory (ISBN 0-9690943-2-9) both available through The Canadian Military History SOciety I believe.

There are also some good walkabout here on site that may help.

Have fun.

Al

Thanks everyone. With a partial glossary, some websites, and a list of books, I ought to be able to start making sense of all this. You guys have been REALLY helpful. I hope that I can someday repay the favor.


Dave

Bill Gregg's books are no longer available from the Canadian Military Histyory Society (which I don't think exists anymore) but they are available from the Kitshop (Giftshop) at the Royal Canadian Artillery Museum, CFB Shilo, Manitoba.

They're dirt cheap at $7 & $10 each, respectively.

They can be ordered from this page:

http://www.rcakitshop.net/catalog/index.php?cPath=2&sort=2a&page=2&osCsid=1564359fcb5cfe428ec8c5d7e55c1fc5

There was also a third volume in the set, Canadian Military Vehicle Profiles, a ring bound set of fold out profiles of 20 vehicles, each fold out being the equivalent of 6 pages of text & images, including armour & softskins. There were only 1000 sets made (and I have #150). These are hard to find. I mean rocking horse sh*t is easier to come by than copies of this set on the open market, but they are out there and some of us have them and are willing to copy pages for those that need the info. Nudge, nudge...

Paul

Service Publications

http://www.servicepub.com/

has a CD on CMP vehicles titled "The Factory Photos, Military Vehicle Photos from the Archives of General Motors and Ford Canada"

Thanks Paul. If I ever learn enough of the basics to have particular questions, I may impose and take you up on your offer. ;-)


Dave