Was wondering what size paint brush you'd all recommend for doing small chipping.
Thanks in advance for the feedback,
Rob
AFV Painting & Weathering
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What size paint brush to use for chipping?
GALILEO1
Joined: April 18, 2006
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Posted: Friday, July 22, 2011 - 08:39 AM UTC
drumthumper
Joined: December 22, 2004
KitMaker: 392 posts
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Posted: Friday, July 22, 2011 - 09:41 AM UTC
Rob,
It's not so much the size of the brush, but the condition of the tip, that is important when applying chips. You would think the smaller, the better, like 5/0, 10/0 or tinier. But that's not true ... a decent brush with a very fine point is what you need. You want the brush to be able to carry a full load of paint - which should flow like ink - just thick enough to not run everywhere, but thin enough to be easily manipulated by the brush. I use an el cheapo WalMart-brand brush (an 0 or 1, I believe), that has an incredibly sharp point. I thin acrylics to the consistency of heavy milk and chip away, using both the tip and the sides of the brush to apply he effect.
Kirchoff
It's not so much the size of the brush, but the condition of the tip, that is important when applying chips. You would think the smaller, the better, like 5/0, 10/0 or tinier. But that's not true ... a decent brush with a very fine point is what you need. You want the brush to be able to carry a full load of paint - which should flow like ink - just thick enough to not run everywhere, but thin enough to be easily manipulated by the brush. I use an el cheapo WalMart-brand brush (an 0 or 1, I believe), that has an incredibly sharp point. I thin acrylics to the consistency of heavy milk and chip away, using both the tip and the sides of the brush to apply he effect.
Kirchoff
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
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Posted: Friday, July 22, 2011 - 09:53 AM UTC
I use a 5/0 taklon brush I got from Michaels. So nice, I bought two. They retain their tip much better that red sable and camel hair.
GALILEO1
Joined: April 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,794 posts
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Posted: Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 07:43 AM UTC
Thanks very much, guys! Don't do much chipping on my artillery models so I wasn't sure if brush size, per se, really mattered.
Rob
Rob
Spiderfrommars
Joined: July 13, 2010
KitMaker: 3,845 posts
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Posted: Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 11:30 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Both shape and size mattered. The load is determined by the size so...
000 from winsor series 7 is very decent, these even better
Eventually you'll want to make your own brushes. Twist couple hair together with superglue. Only need a few to load up paint through capillary effect.
I think that Japanese have the World's Best Brushes
I'm content with a winsor and newton 5/0 ....and unfortunately I'm totally bald
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
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Posted: Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 12:38 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextBoth shape and size mattered. The load is determined by the size so...
000 from winsor series 7 is very decent, these even better
Eventually you'll want to make your own brushes. Twist couple hair together with superglue. Only need a few to load up paint through capillary effect.
I think that Japanese have the World's Best Brushes
I'm content with a winsor and newton 5/0 ....and unfortunately I'm totally bald
Not to worry Mauro! I have a full head of hair and don't mind mailing you some.
Spiderfrommars
Joined: July 13, 2010
KitMaker: 3,845 posts
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Posted: Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 06:24 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Not to worry Mauro! I have a full head of hair and don't mind mailing you some.
Spiderfrommars
Joined: July 13, 2010
KitMaker: 3,845 posts
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Posted: Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 06:42 PM UTC
Quoted Text
if you have a dog....
I had also tried ferret hair and taken some whiskers from a hamster.
Yes, I'have a dog....but i don't know if he will happy about that
Joking aside, It would be a grat idea. All in all brushes are made with animal bristles
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
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Posted: Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 08:51 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Textif you have a dog....
I had also tried ferret hair and taken some whiskers from a hamster.
Yes, I'have a dog....but i don't know if he will happy about that
Joking aside, It would be a grat idea. All in all brushes are made with animal bristles
Taklon brushes aren't. Neither are nylon. Of course, I wouldn't waste $$ on a nylon even if it was the last brush in the world. On the flip side, taklon brushes are great! I'd almost be willing to give half my soldier's stowage for a few sets of Artetje.
collin26
Joined: March 24, 2007
KitMaker: 317 posts
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Posted: Monday, July 25, 2011 - 09:41 AM UTC
Brian,
These are very nice looking brushes. Can you share if they are available in USA & if so where?
Also, to add to the conversation. You can use small pieces of sponge to good effect. The sponge should be almost dry, meaning very little paint load....almost what you would expect for dry brushing. This will enable you to get a random look, differing in appearance from the chipps achieved with a brush or hairspray technique.
These are very nice looking brushes. Can you share if they are available in USA & if so where?
Also, to add to the conversation. You can use small pieces of sponge to good effect. The sponge should be almost dry, meaning very little paint load....almost what you would expect for dry brushing. This will enable you to get a random look, differing in appearance from the chipps achieved with a brush or hairspray technique.
GALILEO1
Joined: April 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,794 posts
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Posted: Monday, July 25, 2011 - 11:36 AM UTC
Thanks guys for the responses! Brian, those are really nice brushes. I'll stop by the art store tomorrow and see what I can find.
Rob
Rob
Karl187
#284
Joined: October 04, 2006
KitMaker: 3,094 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 - 03:36 AM UTC
I always find Italeri 10/0 brushed to be well priced and decent enough for very small work like chipping. Not as good as some brands mind, but they are quite good. I usually use Tamiya High Finish Ultra Fine for most small work.
GALILEO1
Joined: April 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,794 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 - 04:31 AM UTC
Hey guys, here's a related question:
When do you all do your chipping...As soon as you're finished with your base coat or after clear coating?
Thanks!
Rob
When do you all do your chipping...As soon as you're finished with your base coat or after clear coating?
Thanks!
Rob
TheGreatPumpkin
Vendor
Joined: April 20, 2009
KitMaker: 690 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 - 06:06 AM UTC
Rob,
I used the sponge technique for my latest build. You can see it on this site at: Marder III
Hope that helps.
Regards,
Georg
I used the sponge technique for my latest build. You can see it on this site at: Marder III
Hope that helps.
Regards,
Georg
Karl187
#284
Joined: October 04, 2006
KitMaker: 3,094 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 - 08:54 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hey guys, here's a related question:
When do you all do your chipping...As soon as you're finished with your base coat or after clear coating?
Thanks!
Rob
You can do it either or. It depends on what kind of finish you are going for and I reckon the best advice would be to experiment with some scrap models to see how it goes. I will say that I find sometimes clear-coating can dampen the effect of chipping if it isn't too heavy, requiring a slight touch-up later to bring it back up again. But if you have a lot of very visible cheaping and wear and tear the clear-coat wouldn't be a problem. The only thing I'd say is that chipping (with acrylic paint) would work better over a matt clear-coat.
didgeboy
Joined: September 21, 2010
KitMaker: 1,846 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 - 05:43 PM UTC
Brian where can one find said super brushes? Having no luck with a google search.
Karl187
#284
Joined: October 04, 2006
KitMaker: 3,094 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 - 05:10 AM UTC
Anyone know if those uber brushes are avaliable from someone in the UK or Europe?
kaysersose
Joined: May 05, 2009
KitMaker: 86 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 - 05:25 AM UTC
Oh geez, so much to think of here; how much chipping, where, etc.
Much 2 cents... I like to bring the chipping up to a point that I like,, rather than possibly too much all at once, so I go small brush (size I don't recall, but similar to what's been shown so far).
As well, I have an old beater that has about eight hairs left that come together when wetted with paint of what-have-you; it works too.
Experiment, have fun!
Much 2 cents... I like to bring the chipping up to a point that I like,, rather than possibly too much all at once, so I go small brush (size I don't recall, but similar to what's been shown so far).
As well, I have an old beater that has about eight hairs left that come together when wetted with paint of what-have-you; it works too.
Experiment, have fun!
GALILEO1
Joined: April 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,794 posts
Armorama: 1,431 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 - 07:20 AM UTC
Thanks for all the responses, guys, very much appreciated! Regarding chipping, I think I'll leave it toward the end of the weathering process, right before I do the pin washes.
Regarding the brushes, well, today I went to a supposedly "well stocked" art store to find that their brush section SUCKED big time! No kidding, four large brushes left in an entire two isle section! Ridiculous! Anyway, I'll have to try Michaels and see if I can find something useful there. Otherwise, it's online ordering for me.
Thanks again!
Rob
Regarding the brushes, well, today I went to a supposedly "well stocked" art store to find that their brush section SUCKED big time! No kidding, four large brushes left in an entire two isle section! Ridiculous! Anyway, I'll have to try Michaels and see if I can find something useful there. Otherwise, it's online ordering for me.
Thanks again!
Rob
Karl187
#284
Joined: October 04, 2006
KitMaker: 3,094 posts
Armorama: 2,942 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 - 08:57 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks for all the responses, guys, very much appreciated! Regarding chipping, I think I'll leave it toward the end of the weathering process, right before I do the pin washes.
Regarding the brushes, well, today I went to a supposedly "well stocked" art store to find that their brush section SUCKED big time! No kidding, four large brushes left in an entire two isle section! Ridiculous! Anyway, I'll have to try Michaels and see if I can find something useful there. Otherwise, it's online ordering for me.
Thanks again!
Rob
I always find this with art stores- they are good for medium sized flat and round brushes (like size 2-4 or so) but anything else is usually gone or has been sitting so long it isn't worth the money. Either that or the only selection is stuff the size of wall paint brushes!
ninjrk
Joined: January 26, 2006
KitMaker: 1,381 posts
Armorama: 1,347 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 - 09:46 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextHey guys, here's a related question:
When do you all do your chipping...As soon as you're finished with your base coat or after clear coating?
Thanks!
Rob
You can do it either or. It depends on what kind of finish you are going for and I reckon the best advice would be to experiment with some scrap models to see how it goes. I will say that I find sometimes clear-coating can dampen the effect of chipping if it isn't too heavy, requiring a slight touch-up later to bring it back up again. But if you have a lot of very visible cheaping and wear and tear the clear-coat wouldn't be a problem. The only thing I'd say is that chipping (with acrylic paint) would work better over a matt clear-coat.
Personal preference on my part, I suppose, but I rather like the muted effect that it has on chipping. Same reason I do chipping right after decaling. I think a lot of the criticism of chipping is because it tends to be "in your face" and very obvious. Muting with a clear coat and weathering over it doesn't make it disappear but it does make it blend and not catch the eye so much. just my opinion, of course!
Matt
SdAufKla
Joined: May 07, 2010
KitMaker: 2,238 posts
Armorama: 2,158 posts
Posted: Thursday, July 28, 2011 - 03:20 AM UTC
Quoted Text
... Regarding chipping, I think I'll leave it toward the end of the weathering process, right before I do the pin washes.
Regarding the brushes, well, today I went to a supposedly "well stocked" art store to find that their brush section SUCKED big time! No kidding, four large brushes left in an entire two isle section! Ridiculous! Anyway, I'll have to try Michaels and see if I can find something useful there. Otherwise, it's online ordering for me....
Hey, Rob, try these guys:
Dick Blick Art Supplies W&N Series 7
(Blick is also a great place to buy bulk artist pigments.) Their service is very good, shipping is reasonable and fast.
I've given up searching for a local source of quality paint brushes. In my area, the big box craft stores as you found out really only carry dross, regular art supply stores charge too much, and the LHS can't sell enough quality brushes to even bother stocking them. Mail order is about the only way where I live.
IRT as to when to do your chipping: You can add chips at any stage after the base colors in your finishing sequence. Weathering over them helps blend them in to the overall finish, but having some look fresher and some older adds to the illusion that the chips have been acquired over time and not all at once.
I deliberately tone them down so they don't tloo too fresh or stark. You can also combine acrylic chipping with oil paint rust streaks and dust / rain streaks. The oils will not affect the underlying acrylic chips allowing you to combine the effects.
Here's an example that I'm working on right now:
StuG IV Early to Late
I'm certainly not saying this is the only way or even the best way to add chips. There are many ways to get to where you might want to go with your finishing.
However, as long as you think about the logic of what you're doing - When were the chips made? How were they made? If there's chipping here, should there be other chipping there? Why would there be chips here? Do chips in this place make sense? - Then you can't go wrong with the sequence of application.
HTH,
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