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Armor/AFV: British Armor
Discuss all types of British Armor of all eras.
Hosted by Darren Baker
BRITSH 25pdr SP “BISHOP”
momcha
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Nis, Serbia & Montenegro
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Posted: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 - 02:43 AM UTC
My new project. New Bronco Models Bishop. Coloring and marking scheme will be for North Africa. An interesting model with a lot of detail.Now effects with AK filters, chipping,weathering...
Here are the first pictures.









Update soon

Momcha
jon_a_its
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Posted: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 - 03:26 AM UTC
really good work so far, but faar too clean,
Like the exhaust (muffler) treatment, but which genius decided the exhaust output needed to be at the same level as the driver/co-drivers?
momcha
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Posted: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 - 07:14 PM UTC
This is just the beginning. Now comes weathering. When I first saw pictures of Bishop, I asked the same question .
Dangeroo
#023
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Posted: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 - 07:37 PM UTC
Looking great so far. I hadn't realised that this was already out. there's a whole bunch of photos of a battery of these entrenched on a sicilian airfield using German wings to increase elevation.

Cheers!
Stefan
momcha
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Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 - 05:15 AM UTC
Little update, turret is ready to be assembled and painted from the outside

and yes Stefan, you are right. There are pictures from operation "Husky", invasion of Sicily, where brits used broken wings from german airplanes to increase elevation.
AlanL
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Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 - 07:45 AM UTC
This one looks like a fun build, you're makinmg good progress.

Al
SgtRam
Staff MemberContributing Writer
AEROSCALE
#197
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Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 - 12:32 PM UTC
Very impresive so far, can't wait to see the final project.

momcha
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Posted: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 09:29 PM UTC
Thank you for comments

Ok, here is the continuation of work on Bishop. There is still plenty things to do.
Tracks and wheels are workable. I made chiping, the first layer of weathering. I`m not exactly pleased with weathering and I will do another layer. I used AK filters for the engine, tracks, oil stainds ...











Update soon, and I'm thinking to make diorama for this one.
Firefly74
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Queensland, Australia
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Posted: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 09:53 PM UTC
Very nice work! Will look great on a dio. Look forward to seeing more.
Cheers,
Tim
momcha
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Posted: Friday, August 26, 2011 - 08:37 AM UTC
Thank you Tim. Update will be soon with few more models that are gonna be on diorama.

cheers

Momcha
tankmodeler
#417
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Posted: Friday, August 26, 2011 - 08:51 AM UTC
I hate to make these comments at this point in the process, and feel free to ignore anything too hard to correct, but...

1) There is a rectangular block sitting on the gun tube immediately in front of the breech block. This block belongs only (ONLY) on the later 25 pdrs that are fitted with the muzzle brake. It is a counterweight for that brake and would seriously throw off the gun's accuracy if in place on a gun without a brake. The Bishop's gun should never have this block.

2) The base colour of the Bishop under the sand colours should be brown, not green. These vehicles were painted in SCC2 (Fresh Dogsh*t Brown). Places where the chipping wears away the sand should show brown.

3) Similarly, the ammo boxes and any POL cans that are not sand colur should be also be SCC2 brown.

SCC2 was the standard colour for _everything_ in the British army from late 1942 until the introduction of SCC15 OD in the spring of 1944.

Paul
momcha
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Posted: Monday, August 29, 2011 - 07:37 PM UTC
Paul, you are killing me 8-. Just kidding . I see that your disposal with a lot of useful information. This Bishop is assembled by the instruction given in the box. As I previously tried to find out more about the Bishop,I did not find many pictures. As you know, there are few pictures that can be seen.

As for the colors ... a bit late now Any way, thank you for watching and commenting

Update soon
AlanL
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Posted: Monday, August 29, 2011 - 08:34 PM UTC
Hi,

Nice work on the wear and tear One thing; I would move the Jerrycan away from the exhaust which would have gotten red hot when the vehicle was running.

Excellent progress.

Al
modellover
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Posted: Monday, August 29, 2011 - 11:04 PM UTC
Fantastic job!
That's just WOW!!!
LOVE IT
tankmodeler
#417
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Posted: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 - 06:28 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Paul, you are killing me 8-. Just kidding .


Sorry, dude. I susopected that I might be too late, but wanted you to have the info just in case.


Quoted Text

This Bishop is assembled by the instruction given in the box.


Yeah, that's the problem, The box contains the 25 pdr tube with a built-in counterweight. That is a mistake on Bronco's part, unfortunately. Tamiya made teh same mistake, many, many years ago. The truely unfortunate part is that this mistake is well known and should really have been caught by Bronco. I can never understand a kit manufacturer who puts out a new kit of a subject that has had an old model version available in the past and then doesn't do a little basic research to find out what was right or wrong abuot the older kit. It would seem pretty fundamental to me that before a company spends a pretty serious amount of money on a mould that they were want to discover any lessons to be learned from someone else's mistakes.


Quoted Text

As I previously tried to find out more about the Bishop,I did not find many pictures. As you know, there are few pictures that can be seen.


That's true, but there are a couple shots available into the fighting compartment with the doors open and they do confirm tha the counterwweight was not in place. Even if Bishop photos are not avilable, there is a LOT of knowledge around about the 25 pdr. A few questions here and there about the gun, itself, would have also turned up worries about the counterweight.

This is not to dump on you, Momcha, not at all, you've done a really attractive build here. But I just wanted to let you know that there are additional ways to find out whether the kit you are building needs some help in a few areas prior to it being too late. By and large, both the Bishop and the 25 pdr are great kits, they just need a few tweaks here and there as all models do.

HTH

Paul
momcha
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Posted: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 - 11:05 PM UTC
Hi guys,thank for the reply's.
Paul, I appreciate your advice. That's why there are forums

While collecting a little more concentration to complete the Bishop, I began to work in parallel on diorama and Tilly, which will be found together with the Bishop. This is pictures just after painting. On the photographs can be seen white on the wheels. It is a plaster which remained after checking how standing on the diorama.






Update soon
tankmodeler
#417
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Posted: Thursday, September 01, 2011 - 07:29 AM UTC
Momcha,

I hate to be the bearer of bad news again, but here it is...

1) The Caunter Scheme never used blue as one of the colours, notwithstanding that a lot of references from the 70s say it did. Modern research of both the orders that directed the painting, the few colour photos from the time and perusal of war diaries and orders form the Middle East from the period show conclusively that blue was never used. There is a series of three photos of one vehicle (a Chev truck) that appears to have blue in the pattern, but this is the single vehicle _ever_ to to have photo evidence found using blue and can't really be used to justify blue in any other vehicle.

2) the Caunter Scheme was from 1940-41 and no later. While painted vehicles were not always repainted, by the time the Bishops arrived in theatre in 1943, the chances of any vehicle in Caunter remaining to be in the same diorama would be pretty close to zero. These things were used up v ery, very quickly and the British Amry suffered a number of reverses between when the Caunter was authorised and when the Bishops arrived.

If you are looking for an accurate diorama, you shouldn't use the Tilly (as currently painted) and Bishop together on the same base. You can repaint the Tilly in Light Stone or Light Mud and use it, but not as it is.


Similarly, if you want an accurate Caunter vehicle, you should repaint the blue. The proper colours for the Caunter Scheme are: Silver Grey No. 28 and Slate No.34 over a base of Portland Stone No.64

Tamiya, Humbrol and some Vallejo mixes are available on the Missing Links and MAFVA sites.

HTH

Paul
momcha
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Posted: Saturday, September 17, 2011 - 02:26 AM UTC
While I wait for DOA paints for Tilly (new sets of British colors), I worked on the diorama. You can see from a few angles how it looks like, and on the last picture how everything in the end should look.





AlanL
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Posted: Saturday, September 17, 2011 - 02:40 AM UTC
That's a really nice base you've created there. On the Tilly I agree with Paul, a re-paint would be in order or if you are going to use the Caunter scheme drop me your email addrerss and I'll send you the correct pattern.

Buff not green for the helmets would be appropriate. You have the making of a grand dio here.

Cheers

Al
210cav
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Posted: Saturday, September 17, 2011 - 03:49 AM UTC
Momcha-- outstanding workmanship. Beautiful job with the weathering on the Bishop.
Great job!
DJ
momcha
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Posted: Sunday, September 18, 2011 - 08:11 PM UTC
Alan, thank you for caunter scheme, much appreciated.
Dj , thank you on kind comment.

Update soon

cheers

Momcha
momcha
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Posted: Friday, September 23, 2011 - 09:24 PM UTC
Here are some pictures after the re-painting Tilly in Caunter sheme,with DOA colors.My experience with these colors is positive, for each recommendation.












comments are wellcome
tankmodeler
#417
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Posted: Saturday, September 24, 2011 - 01:20 AM UTC
The really is a first rate paint job, mate. Bloody well done.

A couple of minor comments: 1) the Tilly was gasoline powered, so black stains near the filler cap are unlikely. The greyish stains from evaporated gas are more likely as is a heightened accumulation of dust in the spill area. 2) where you've masked off the colour lines has also served as the demarcation point for some of the weathering. It's as if the raised line of paint at the tape edge is where the rust & dirt have started on the model and that's probably not what you want. It's not too noticable, though, just something to look out for.

Lastly, were you not going to put some unit markings on the wee beastie? She's well used, but doesn't have a home!

Really, though, bloody well done!

Paul
momcha
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Posted: Monday, September 26, 2011 - 11:55 PM UTC
Thanks Paul,
I'm glad that you like it. How are you a connoisseur of the British armor, your feedback is welcome.

cheers
Momcha
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